RugbyRebels

Puja wrote:Wait - there's no Ben Spencer in there.

He's either got an injury/Covid or Eddie agrees with me about putting time into Mitchell being better value than hoping Ben Spencer's having a good day rather than a bad one.

Puja

TBF - there's no point having Spencer or Robson as 3rd choices; and he HAS got Youngs and Heinz in there - so we already know which 2 will be in the 23.

BaaBaas have called up Callum Clark - Just in case there was any lingering doubt as to who I supported in this match (I'm usually neutral for Eng vs BaaBaas, caring more about individuals and specific partnerships than any result)

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:Wait - there's no Ben Spencer in there.

He's either got an injury/Covid or Eddie agrees with me about putting time into Mitchell being better value than hoping Ben Spencer's having a good day rather than a bad one.

Puja

TBF - there's no point having Spencer or Robson as 3rd choices; and he HAS got Youngs and Heinz in there - so we already know which 2 will be in the 23.

BaaBaas have called up Callum Clark - Just in case there was any lingering doubt as to who I supported in this match (I'm usually neutral for Eng vs BaaBaas, caring more about individuals and specific partnerships than any result)

Was curious as to the kind of side the Barbarians are putting out and found this: https://www.planetrugby.com/barbarians- ... eir-squad/

Sean Maitland, Tim Swinson, Joel Kpoku, Calum Clark, Dom Morris, Juan Pablo Socino, Alex Lewington and Tom Woolstencroft will join team-mates Richard Wigglesworth, Jackson Wray and Manu Vunipola alongside former Harlequins and England captain Chris Robshaw.

This is going to be an absolute murdering, even if we do put an experimental side out. We're playing the Saracens reserves plus special guest star Chris Robshaw. If we play the best team we have, it could go over 100 points.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:Interesting that Lawrence is primarily being seen as a ‘bosh’ option. Sure, he’s powerful, but a lot of his breaks are based upon good lines, footwork and acceleration.

Similar to Manu then. Most his breaks come from his outside arc and defenders going flat footed because they are worried he'll run over them. Some more footwork will definitely help, as running the big lad down the 10 channel has limited success at the top level. Not that we won't do a bit of that anyway.

Puja wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:Wait - there's no Ben Spencer in there.

He's either got an injury/Covid or Eddie agrees with me about putting time into Mitchell being better value than hoping Ben Spencer's having a good day rather than a bad one.

Puja

TBF - there's no point having Spencer or Robson as 3rd choices; and he HAS got Youngs and Heinz in there - so we already know which 2 will be in the 23.

BaaBaas have called up Callum Clark - Just in case there was any lingering doubt as to who I supported in this match (I'm usually neutral for Eng vs BaaBaas, caring more about individuals and specific partnerships than any result)

Was curious as to the kind of side the Barbarians are putting out and found this: https://www.planetrugby.com/barbarians- ... eir-squad/

Sean Maitland, Tim Swinson, Joel Kpoku, Calum Clark, Dom Morris, Juan Pablo Socino, Alex Lewington and Tom Woolstencroft will join team-mates Richard Wigglesworth, Jackson Wray and Manu Vunipola alongside former Harlequins and England captain Chris Robshaw.

This is going to be an absolute murdering, even if we do put an experimental side out. We're playing the Saracens reserves plus special guest star Chris Robshaw. If we play the best team we have, it could go over 100 points.

Puja

Probably a bit of an exaggeration, but we should comfortably win against that side.

I feel sorry for Robshaw. He deserves to be in a far better Barbarians side than this one.

Is this planned humiliation of Sarries deliberate?

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Hasn’t really played there at senior level AFAIK?

Presumably we’ll be looking at Farrell at 12 with Marchant or Lawrence at 13?

I reckon Eddie will be planning on giving him time at 12 and running him at 12 in training. He wants to keep the flexibility of Ford/Farrell/Bosh or Farrell/Bosh/Slade.

Wouldn't be entirely surprised if Eddie ended up putting Marchant on the wing. After all, it's where the Kiwis put him, so there must be merit, and he's neither of the types of 13 that he likes.

Puja

That's a good way of expressing the situation, where we essentially have Ford battling Slade for a starting spot.

Scrumhead wrote:
I feel sorry for Robshaw. He deserves to be in a far better Barbarians side than this one.

Given the Quins sides he’s played in for the past 4/5 years I’m sure he’ll feel at home

Oh wow, I missed all the stuff about the Barbarians team selection. What a weird game this is going to be.

Mellsblue wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
I feel sorry for Robshaw. He deserves to be in a far better Barbarians side than this one.

Given the Quins sides he’s played in for the past 4/5 years I’m sure he’ll feel at home

Upgrade?

Lawrence played both 12 and 13 throughout school and dev, though almost entirely at 13 as an adult.

He’s not really Manu. Yes, powerful, but he’s different. He’s somewhere between Manu and JJ, but he’s his own player.

There’s only a small handful of international calibre centres in the world that can replicate what Manu does. Nearly all of them Polynesian.

As Eddie said, with Manu out we have to find new ways of getting over the gain line, particularly from first phase.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Lawrence played both 12 and 13 throughout school and dev, though almost entirely at 13 as an adult.

He’s not really Manu. Yes, powerful, but he’s different. He’s somewhere between Manu and JJ, but he’s his own player.

To be honest, something between Manu and JJ sounds lovely - I'll take two please.

Puja

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Lawrence played both 12 and 13 throughout school and dev, though almost entirely at 13 as an adult.

He’s not really Manu. Yes, powerful, but he’s different. He’s somewhere between Manu and JJ, but he’s his own player.

No one's really Manu though. I don't think Lawrence needs to be either. Eddie likes physicality in his midfield. Doesn't mean he needs to run into brick wall all day. Eddie seems to want someone that will take the ball off the playmakers when we are on the back foot. Someone that will help get the team onto the front foot from first phase. We've used Jonathan Joseph with his fast feet to do this before now.

If you're going to play dual playmakers in the midfield you need a strike runner alongside them. I think Lawrence can fit that bill. Marchant too incidentally though I think Marchant might yet bulk up slightly in the next year or two.

I'd like to see Lawrence in a better side than Wuss, he's very impressive, but sometimes feel like he's trying to do too much himself.

Do agree with Eddie needing some physicality in the modern day midfield. When we ran with Ford-Farrell-Slade in the South Africa a couple years ago it became quite laughable after the 5th Slade crash up into a 18 stone backrower

In the DT this morning is a comment that Simmonds, Simmonds and Hill are currently the best in their positions in the country yet indications are that none will feature for England this autumn - go figure. Can't disagree and can't work it out. All three would be in my 23.

Updated squad due later today. The 3 Exeter players have all got very strong claims to be included. We'll see.

fivepointer wrote:Updated squad due later today. The 3 Exeter players have all got very strong claims to be included. We'll see.

Are they going to include Exeter and Wasps players before the baa baas game? Seems a bit pointless

Yeah. I’m pretty sure there won’t be any Exeter or Wasps players added to the squad today with the Premiership final on Saturday.

I’d imagine the additions will be Bristol players. I’d say Earl is likely and Malins and Randall are decent possibilities.

Oakboy wrote:In the DT this morning is a comment that Simmonds, Simmonds and Hill are currently the best in their positions in the country yet indications are that none will feature for England this autumn - go figure. Can't disagree and can't work it out. All three would be in my 23.

I would have Hill and Joe Simmonds in my squad. Not necessarily my 23.

I’m really not convinced Hill is better than Itoje though?

Joe Simmonds is certainly in better form than Ford or Farrell, but those are two massive names to be competing with.

Sam Simmonds is a great player but he wouldn’t be an 8 in most other teams and is competing with a huge array of back row talent with equally strong claims to be there.

I actually don't know that I expect any Exeter or Wasps players to feature against Italy (at the very least, none starting). Eddie does always value time in camp and they will have had a few days, as opposed to the few weeks that some of the others will have had. And then, once they're out of the first game, I can see it being hard to break into the team.

Bad news for Hill and JWillis, neither of whom can even fall back on previous England experience and knowing the systems already.

Puja

True. The Italy game is significant because of the way the fixtures have fallen. We need a high scoring, 5 point win to be confident of winning the 6 Nations so I doubt any risks (perceived or actual) will be taken.

The Georgia game could be a good opportunity to experiment though.

Oakboy wrote:In the DT this morning is a comment that Simmonds, Simmonds and Hill are currently the best in their positions in the country yet indications are that none will feature for England this autumn - go figure. Can't disagree and can't work it out. All three would be in my 23.

Not unusual for a paper to go overboard following a final win. For me all three should be in the squad and Hill should be starting alongside Itoje. Would be the most abrasive second row we've had in some time as they both like more than a bit of niggle.

The Simmonds boys it's harder to call given the depth in backrow talent and the Eddie conundrum of how to cram two of his three favourite playmakers into the same midfield causing issues already. Ford/Farrell/Slade will all be there somewhere. I would like to see Joe Simmonds eased in somewhere, he's developing into a very good flyhalf and is six years younger than Owen Farrell.

I’m not sure what to expect for the Barbarians game? Given it will be a very low-key Barbarians side, I’m assuming we’ll put out an experimental line-up, but on the other hand, Eddie might see it as a good opportunity to get some of the combinations bedded-in for our likely starters against Italy.

FKAS wrote:Not unusual for a paper to go overboard following a final win. For me all three should be in the squad and Hill should be starting alongside Itoje. Would be the most abrasive second row we've had in some time as they both like more than a bit of niggle.

The Simmonds boys it's harder to call given the depth in backrow talent and the Eddie conundrum of how to cram two of his three favourite playmakers into the same midfield causing issues already. Ford/Farrell/Slade will all be there somewhere. I would like to see Joe Simmonds eased in somewhere, he's developing into a very good flyhalf and is six years younger than Owen Farrell.