RugbyRebels

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:41 pm

Peej wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:26 am I don't get picking Simmonds as a flanker, particularly over Willis. And Itoje reverting to lock for our most important game shows what a balls that whole idea was, it's not like the same players weren't available.

Not sure what more Coles could have done. Hill has been decidedly average.

CM speculating that he will rotate with billy at the base of the scrum.

Blandy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:08 pm

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:41 pm

Peej wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:26 am I don't get picking Simmonds as a flanker, particularly over Willis. And Itoje reverting to lock for our most important game shows what a balls that whole idea was, it's not like the same players weren't available.

Not sure what more Coles could have done. Hill has been decidedly average.

CM speculating that he will rotate with billy at the base of the scrum.

I noticed in the Japan game, that after Sam Simmonds came on they both packed down at 8. I think Simmonds on our ball and Billy on theirs, but I might have that the wrong way round!

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:02 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:20 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:48 pm

Interesting, reckon Eddie was banking on no third jumper for inzid. LCD has been wobbly enough without this

I dunno, it's either that or he was banking on NZ moving Barrett to 6 with Retallick back and thought he'd try a curved ball option for NZ to deal with. NZ didn't resource the breakdown well and didn't get around the park as effectively as they'd have liked Vs Scotland. Adding Simmonds energy to backrow at the same time NZ drop one of their impressive backrow for a third lock could work well in the loose.

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:50 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:02 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:20 pm

I dunno, it's either that or he was banking on NZ moving Barrett to 6 with Retallick back and thought he'd try a curved ball option for NZ to deal with. NZ didn't resource the breakdown well and didn't get around the park as effectively as they'd have liked Vs Scotland. Adding Simmonds energy to backrow at the same time NZ drop one of their impressive backrow for a third lock could work well in the loose.

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Or they were attempting to defend us attacking theirs and have been left slightly nonplussed by our abandoning of our firmly-held stupid principles.

Puja

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:02 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:20 pm

I dunno, it's either that or he was banking on NZ moving Barrett to 6 with Retallick back and thought he'd try a curved ball option for NZ to deal with. NZ didn't resource the breakdown well and didn't get around the park as effectively as they'd have liked Vs Scotland. Adding Simmonds energy to backrow at the same time NZ drop one of their impressive backrow for a third lock could work well in the loose.

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:38 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:02 pm

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:50 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:38 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

Simmonds at his try-scoring best a season or two back did not provide speedy carrying out wide like Croft. He thrived on getting through gaps more in-field. I can see that being much harder against top international teams but if that is his natural game why not back him in the 8 shirt at Billy's expense? This selection seems likely to be another hiding-to-nothing. All of us will be watching with 'it should be Willis' on the tip of our tongues every time he does anything less than sensational.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:58 pm Simmonds is another compromise selection. Willis would have been the same as Itoje was. Once Lawes wasnt going to make the cut and Jones didnt show any interest in anyone who regularly plays 6, we were destined for these kind of picks.
Sometimes you can muddle through and it may come good. Or maybe not.
But you cant have a strategy when you keep doing this kind of stuff.

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:00 pm Cockers on facing down norm hewitt.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... hinking%2F

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:38 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:02 pm

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

(btw- I argued for a while that Simmonds might be better looked at as an option at 7, to be told he was no good at the breakdown . I think he's ok there, esp as a surprise jackaller (?), but its not natural to him)

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:44 pm @jngf are you back or is this a fleeting visit?

jngf wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:42 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:38 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

(btw- I argued for a while that Simmonds might be better looked at as an option at 7, to be told he was no good at the breakdown . I think he's ok there, esp as a surprise jackaller (?), but its not natural to him)

I’m really looking forward to seeing how Simmonds starts at 6 - reminds me a bit of how SA would use Quagga Smith at blindside on occasion

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:44 pm @jngf are you back or is this a fleeting visit?

fivepointer wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:28 am He's done nothing since the WC and nothing so far this season to suggest he's going to have a major impact on the game.

We'll see.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:19 am Why is it a 5.30 KO?

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:58 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:19 am Why is it a 5.30 KO?

Because Amazon have bought all the TV rights and want a full Saturday afternoon/evening of coverage as well as a game on Sunday. I'm guessing the compromise is that the nation's take it in turns for certain time slots.