Most Promising Tier 3 Nations

[rowan]

Germany: We'll start with them since they beat Romania last weekend and also pipped Uruguay in the AIs last year.
Spain: Just defeated Russia and have the most reg. players in Europe outside the 6 Nations (30k).
Russia: Large population, regular ENC 1st division contenders, fully professional club competiton.

Namibia: Have played in the last 5 World Cups and shown steady improvement.
Kenya: Comfortable wins over Spain & Portugal at home last year, almost qualified for RWC, strong in 7s.
Morocco: 3-time Africa Cup winners, played in 1999 RWC repechage, working their way back up the divisions after exclusion from competiton some years ago, recent winners of inaugural North African Tri Nations.

Uruguay: Have played in 2 World Cups, integrated into Argentina's regional and club competitions.
Brazil: Large population, included in the Americas Rugby Championship, beat USA last year and Chile this.

Hong Kong: Asia's number 2, beat Portugal & Zimbabwe last year (but lost to Russia), reached 2015 RWC repechage

[Which Tyler]

Italy > Georgia for me

Fiji I regard as tier 2.5; better player access would have them pretty firmly in tier 2.
Japan are doing really wel at the moment; and really maximising resources; equally though, they're getting extra resources at the moment due to hostinf the RWC in a couple of years; I'm far from convinced they'll maintain this level in another decade - it would be great if they do.
Georgia are playing really well, but - to my understanding - have nothing much below the national team; who are essentially backed by a local billionaire.
Italy aren't doing as well, but are playing tougher opposition, so you wouldn't really expect them to. Their major hamstringing is the annual bribe to the Pro12 to be allowed to play with the big boys, and not really getting the chance to build a squad, and grow from there. Take that bribe and split it 3 ways - each pro team gets 1 part, and the semi-pro league gets part; academies get set up, etc; and it should become a virtuous cycle; starting relatively soon as the pro teams attract better talent; but coming to fruition in 10-15 years as those starting in a new academy structure now come into their peak playing days.
Tonga and Samoa are at a low ebb within tier 3 currently; but simply don't have the player numbers or finance to establish themselves in the 2nd tier.
Romania are hanging onto the coat tails of the rest; which is about all they can expect currently. Obviously, if they get investment in the game, then they'd head towards the upper level of tier 3.

[rowan]

How about tier 3 nations though?

[Which Tyler]

Those are the 3rd tier nations.
If you mean tier 4 - then I don't really know enough about their situations to comment with any validity.

[Renniks]

Those are the 3rd tier nations.
If you mean tier 4 - then I don't really know enough about their situations to comment with any validity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... nion_teams

[rowan]

As far as I know tier 1 comprises the Rugby Championship and 6 Nations members, tier 2 the Pacific Islands, North Americans, Japan, Georgia & Romania, and tier 3 everybody else. Did that change?

Update: Wow, according to that Wiki link, Russia, Spain, Portugal, Namibia and Uruguay have been added to tier 2. But otherwise it's the same. No change to tier 1.

Meanwhile:

Tier 3 Development One :

Belgium
Brazil
Ivory Coast
Chile
Germany
Hong Kong
Kenya
South Korea
Zimbabwe

[Puja]

I'd add China to your list. With the recent surge of official enthusiasm, combined with a large sum of money to back it up, I wouldn't be surprised to see a sharp improvement from them and for them to be in the mix for 2023 qualification.

Puja

[rowan]

I agree, except I think we'll be looking at the 2030s or even 2040s before it starts to come to fruition. Initially they're going to focus mostly on women's 7s, because they could conceivably win a medal that way in the relatively short-term future.

[Which Tyler]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... nion_teams

As far as I was aware, a tiered system was used for a year or so, about a decade ago, and subsequently dropped. A wikipedia article, who's only link on tiers is 12 years ago; and who's second article specifically states that the plan had already been changed, and specifically mentions that tiers have been abandoned; is more likely to confirm my memory, than to deny it.

Tiers are a colloquialism used by fans - typically breaking teams down by their achievements / form; where you draw the line between tiers is entirely subjective.
WR Bands are groupings of countries by the amount of support and funding they need from WR; with only broad references to how successful they are as teams. The bands will have changed since that 2008 article

Personally, I look at tier changes as being a jump in the ranking points; so England and New Zealand in tier 1; Aus currently about 1.5
Tier 2 being Ireland down to Argentina, with Fiji being about a 2.5; and tier 3 as I covered. Below that I don't know enough about the country's rugby systems to really hold an opinion.

[rowan]

Tiers were introduced by World Rugby, along the lines I initially suggested, at around the same time as rankings. I believe they have recently changed the system and replaced the word tiers with bands, probably due to bad press over the the hierarchical nature of the former and more modern image conjured up by the latter. So what are the current 'bands,' do you know?

For the record, the accompanying poll is based on World Rugby's original tier structure.

[Which Tyler]

Ta muchly for giving your opinion - I think I'll go with my memories of events and articles already posted though thanks.

1996 - IRB declare rugby "open" to professionalism - apologies for the wiki link, but it's well enough known not to bother hunting a contemporary press release.
2003 - IRB introduce a ranking system for international teams ahead of the RWC.
2006 - IRB introduces a 6 "tier" system for nations - I found this one by the complicated matter of following Rennick's link above.
2008 - IRB abolishes tier system, and introduces 4 "bands" - identified essentially by value-for-money for IRB investment - I found this one by the complicated matter of following Rennick's link above.

I believe the bands are redrawn with every RWC; they are still to do with investment, rather than ranking.
I don't know which teams are in which band; but feel free to use google for yourself; but I did find this though.

[rowan]

Seems there is a lot of confusion over this. As mentioned, I read something about the new system but never heard any official announcement of these changes, despite keeping my ear pretty close to the ground.

Meanwhile, the Guardian continues to refer to the old tier system in its articles:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... wo-nations
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/ ... an-morariu

So, once again, the poll refers to everyone except the Rugby Championship and 6 Nations teams, the Pacific Island trio, Japan, Canada, the US, Georgia & Romania.

[Which Tyler]

As for announcements, I've provided you links, and found a dozen more within about 10 seconds on Google.

Journalists, or Joe Bloggs being wrong about a thing, doesn't make them suddenly right. However many people don't understand forwards oasses, or penalty tries, or the salary cap; doesn't make them right by dint of continually demonstrating their ignorance.

I'd assumed that the teams you were interested in discussing are those you named in the poll. I simply chose to answer the question asked, rather than the one intended - partly in an attempt to educate about a bug-bear of mine (tiers); and partly as o felt I knew enough to actually answer that one.

[rowan]

Thanks for all your input into this thread, Tyler. That's been incredibly helpful. You have really cleared up the pressing issue of tiers versus bands and showed how it's the latter these days; not the former. I am certain nobody will be left with the slightest doubt about how it all works now, and will henceforth apply the correct terminology to all discussions related to the issue of World rugby's hierarchical structures.

So, back to the poll . . .

[Which Tyler]

You're welcome hun

[rowan]

A few other countries that crossed my mind:

Moldova: Small, Romanian-speaking nation of about 3.5 million, recorded some impressive wins in ENC 2nd division last year, beating the likes of Holland & the Ukraine and losing only by a point to Belgium - who were subsequently promoted to first division. While the domestic game remains minor they have already contributed players to pro leagues in Britain & Russia.

Uganda: Demolished hosts Madagascar in the African Cup final a decade ago and recorded a few wins over Kenya in the Elgon Cup, the Cranes' bubble appeared to burst when they were relegated to 2nd division. But they are back in the top tier this season. 4th biggest rugby-playing nation on the continent in terms of World Rugby's registered player statistics.

Chile: Traditionally South America's 3rd team, though facing a serious challenge from Brazil currently. Nonetheless, defeated the Tupis in last year's inaugural ARC and also beat Uruguay in South American competition. Victories during the pro era over touring Georgia and Spain, & the USA in RWC Cup qualifying (2002), while a 30-32 loss was recorded against Tonga in 2010.

Korea: Asia's 3rd team, regular top 3 division contender - and has a fairly even battle with Hong Kong for second place behind Japan. Though generally outclassed by the Blossoms, they've recorded a number of victories, most recently in 2002. Came back from a 36-7 deficit against hosts Chile in November to square the series with a sensational 36-38 win.

[rowan]

Interesting story here:

"He's the Welshman with the Irish surname who's dreaming of playing in the 2019 Rugby World Cup in Japan...for Germany!"

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... g-12612399

Germany's Oktoberfest 7's: http://oktoberfest7s.com/

[rowan]

Just going back to the issue of tiers being replaced by bands, there is a pretty good account of it given on this blogspot: https://tier2rugby.blogspot.com.tr/2014 ... ation.html

I used to chat with the author of that blogspot on the tier 2 and 3 forum, but he quit posting there in disgust at the moderating. There is another good article about the mistake of lumping Georgia & Romania together when they are on pretty much opposing trajectories: https://tier2rugby.blogspot.com.tr/2016 ... .html#more