Stupid *****

[canta_brian]

I’m struggling here. Putting aside any debate over what Corbyn did or didn’t say, why is it better to have said “stupid people” than “stupid woman”? Surely it is the word stupid that is perjorative rather than people or woman. In fact, I think it can be argued that only those complaining about what he said can be accused of sexism as they are the ones inferring a more negative slur from “stupid woman” than “stupid people”.

[Digby]

Non story which distracts from his non opposition to May's non plan

[Stom]

I’m struggling here. Putting aside any debate over what Corbyn did or didn’t say, why is it better to have said “stupid people” than “stupid woman”? Surely it is the word stupid that is perjorative rather than people or woman. In fact, I think it can be argued that only those complaining about what he said can be accused of sexism as they are the ones inferring a more negative slur from “stupid woman” than “stupid people”.

Because he's not allowed to insult someone directly, but he is allowed to insult the group as a whole... Dumb ass parliamentary rules...

[Mikey Brown]

Basically everything about this situation is dumb, but I think you'd struggle to argue that the noun is totally irrelevant if you said "stupid jew" or "stupid black person". They're both fucking dickheads. How about that?

[fivepointer]

Rules are rules. Corbyn has been in Parliament long enough to know what he can and cant say.

That it should be front page news is absurd. The country is gripped by its gravest crisis since WW2 and we are sidetracked with this non event.

[Mellsblue]

Don’t worry. We’re all still obsessing about Brexit. So much in fact that feck all else is being done.

[onlynameleft]

Stupid word to choose as the 'p' sound which is of course twice in people is very distinctive to a lip reader. Woman couldn't really be further away.
I saw my daughter call her brother a stupid shit through the window last week. She denied it of course but told me she had called him a stupid boy. She might have got away with stupid kid. I wonder what word Corbyn could have pretended to have said instead that would have been more believable. WUM maybe?
I do agree about the stupid thing, it reminds me of when John Terry was supposed to have called Anton Ferdinand and black cvnt, no one seemed to care a hoot that he had called him a cvnt.

[Mikey Brown]

Is this old news?

[Stones of granite]

Is this old news?

Yeah, but that's OK 'cos he's gay.

[Lizard]

Jeebus. I can’t believe that Britain is fussing over this when they’re now painted into a corner where May’s deal can’t get a Parliamentary majority, a 2nd referendum can’t get a majority, withdrawing A50 can’t get a majority, the EU will not negotiate any other deal, so you are now definitely having a no-deal, hard Brexit. Maybe do a bit of planning for that instead? Bomb detection systems on the intra-Irish border might be a good start.

[Puja]

Jeebus. I can’t believe that Britain is fussing over this when they’re now painted into a corner where May’s deal can’t get a Parliamentary majority, a 2nd referendum can’t get a majority, withdrawing A50 can’t get a majority, the EU will not negotiate any other deal, so you are now definitely having a no-deal, hard Brexit. Maybe do a bit of planning for that instead? Bomb detection systems on the intra-Irish border might be a good start.

QFT.

I can't believe that we're under 100 days till Brexit, May hasn't got a hope in hell of getting a deal through Parliament as things stand and instead of doing something constructive or looking to work with the opposition, she's wasting parliamentary time with a third rate comedy routine about pantomimes. She *is* a stupid woman/person.

Not that Corbyn's exactly been useful either, but I can understand his frustration at asking her questions only to get that shit back.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Jeebus. I can’t believe that Britain is fussing over this when they’re now painted into a corner where May’s deal can’t get a Parliamentary majority, a 2nd referendum can’t get a majority, withdrawing A50 can’t get a majority, the EU will not negotiate any other deal, so you are now definitely having a no-deal, hard Brexit. Maybe do a bit of planning for that instead? Bomb detection systems on the intra-Irish border might be a good start.

QFT.

I can't believe that we're under 100 days till Brexit, May hasn't got a hope in hell of getting a deal through Parliament as things stand and instead of doing something constructive or looking to work with the opposition, she's wasting parliamentary time with a third rate comedy routine about pantomimes. She *is* a stupid woman/person.

Not that Corbyn's exactly been useful either, but I can understand his frustration at asking her questions only to get that shit back.

Puja

I'm still baffled at her new-found swagger. Is it just that she knows that will piss people off? She always seemed like the greyest, dullest kind of woman and now she is dancing on stage and trying to crack jokes at the most horrendous moments. Was she always like this and I just didn't noticed? Or has she just accepted that enough bullshit smoke-screens might see us to a point where there is simply no other option?

[Puja]

I can't believe that we're under 100 days till Brexit, May hasn't got a hope in hell of getting a deal through Parliament as things stand and instead of doing something constructive or looking to work with the opposition, she's wasting parliamentary time with a third rate comedy routine about pantomimes. She *is* a stupid woman/person.

Not that Corbyn's exactly been useful either, but I can understand his frustration at asking her questions only to get that shit back.

Puja

I'm still baffled at her new-found swagger. Is it just that she knows that will piss people off? She always seemed like the greyest, dullest kind of woman and now she is dancing on stage and trying to crack jokes at the most horrendous moments. Was she always like this and I just didn't noticed? Or has she just accepted that enough bullshit smoke-screens might see us to a point where there is simply no other option?

I think it's the freedom of the condemned woman. She can do whatever she likes as it's hardly going to matter.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Jeebus. I can’t believe that Britain is fussing over this when they’re now painted into a corner where May’s deal can’t get a Parliamentary majority, a 2nd referendum can’t get a majority, withdrawing A50 can’t get a majority, the EU will not negotiate any other deal, so you are now definitely having a no-deal, hard Brexit. Maybe do a bit of planning for that instead? Bomb detection systems on the intra-Irish border might be a good start.

QFT.

I can't believe that we're under 100 days till Brexit, May hasn't got a hope in hell of getting a deal through Parliament as things stand and instead of doing something constructive or looking to work with the opposition, she's wasting parliamentary time with a third rate comedy routine about pantomimes. She *is* a stupid woman/person.

Not that Corbyn's exactly been useful either, but I can understand his frustration at asking her questions only to get that shit back.

Puja

“Looking to work with the opposition”. Which opposition? Green, SNP and the Lib Dems all of whom oppose Brexit, or Lab who are as divided as the Cons, and whose official policy is either ‘have your cake and eat it’ or ‘nothing is off the table’ both of which are hilariously poor/weak/spineless.

[canta_brian]

May was playing all sorts of games in trying to avoid questions. No change to a normal pmqs really. Except that the stakes are a little higher and a lot of what she came up with looked cheap and desperate.

It will be interesting to see whether or not she tries to delay a vote again in the 2nd week of the new year. If so I think that is the one and only time where Corbyn can table a motion of no confidence in the government with all that entails. Doing it in this last week would have achieved nothing with the DUP still prepared to back the Tories.

If it does come back in week 2 and is voted down I don't see a no confidence vote. Rather a move towards parliament voting for a 2nd referendum. As much as everyone is pretending to hate the idea in both the Tory and Labour leadership I think they will blame each other and say there is no other realistic way to reach a conclusion.

And we are back from general stupidity to Brexit's specific stupidity.

It's been a long couple of years.

[Mellsblue]

If she delays the vote again I think her own cabinet will call a vote of no confidence.

It has been a long two years, and it’s a long way from being over.

[Puja]

Jeebus. I can’t believe that Britain is fussing over this when they’re now painted into a corner where May’s deal can’t get a Parliamentary majority, a 2nd referendum can’t get a majority, withdrawing A50 can’t get a majority, the EU will not negotiate any other deal, so you are now definitely having a no-deal, hard Brexit. Maybe do a bit of planning for that instead? Bomb detection systems on the intra-Irish border might be a good start.

QFT.

I can't believe that we're under 100 days till Brexit, May hasn't got a hope in hell of getting a deal through Parliament as things stand and instead of doing something constructive or looking to work with the opposition, she's wasting parliamentary time with a third rate comedy routine about pantomimes. She *is* a stupid woman/person.

Not that Corbyn's exactly been useful either, but I can understand his frustration at asking her questions only to get that shit back.

Puja

“Looking to work with the opposition”. Which opposition? Green, SNP and the Lib Dems all of whom oppose Brexit, or Lab who are as divided as the Cons, and whose official policy is either ‘have your cake and eat it’ or ‘nothing is off the table’ both of which are hilariously poor/weak/spineless.

Well, she knows she can't get a majority for her deal from her party no matter what she does, but there are quite a number of Labour MPs who would be interested in a deal or might be swayed to avoid a no deal... if she hadn't spent the last two years attacking them and claiming that every one of them is personally out to wreck the country. She stands a hell of a lot better chance getting Kate Hoey to vote with her than Rees Mogg, yet she's not even attempting to tone down the aggression and look to win cross-Parliament votes.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

QFT.

I can't believe that we're under 100 days till Brexit, May hasn't got a hope in hell of getting a deal through Parliament as things stand and instead of doing something constructive or looking to work with the opposition, she's wasting parliamentary time with a third rate comedy routine about pantomimes. She *is* a stupid woman/person.

Not that Corbyn's exactly been useful either, but I can understand his frustration at asking her questions only to get that shit back.

Puja

“Looking to work with the opposition”. Which opposition? Green, SNP and the Lib Dems all of whom oppose Brexit, or Lab who are as divided as the Cons, and whose official policy is either ‘have your cake and eat it’ or ‘nothing is off the table’ both of which are hilariously poor/weak/spineless.

Well, she knows she can't get a majority for her deal from her party no matter what she does, but there are quite a number of Labour MPs who would be interested in a deal or might be swayed to avoid a no deal... if she hadn't spent the last two years attacking them and claiming that every one of them is personally out to wreck the country. She stands a hell of a lot better chance getting Kate Hoey to vote with her than Rees Mogg, yet she's not even attempting to tone down the aggression and look to win cross-Parliament votes.

Puja

For every Lab MP she might persuade she loses two Cons for the concessions she has to make.
As for the suggestion that she attacked them all and said they’re all out to personally wreck the country, other than saying it’s in keeping with the current mood of ridiculous hyperbole I’ve nothing else. For what it’s worth, there have been entreaties from No10 to some Lab MP’s and it’s gone absolutely nowhere.
That’s not to say she’s made a good job of it (far from it and I think she’s a terrible leader) but to lump all the blame on her whilst casting Lab as bullied victims is ridiculous.

[Puja]

“Looking to work with the opposition”. Which opposition? Green, SNP and the Lib Dems all of whom oppose Brexit, or Lab who are as divided as the Cons, and whose official policy is either ‘have your cake and eat it’ or ‘nothing is off the table’ both of which are hilariously poor/weak/spineless.

Well, she knows she can't get a majority for her deal from her party no matter what she does, but there are quite a number of Labour MPs who would be interested in a deal or might be swayed to avoid a no deal... if she hadn't spent the last two years attacking them and claiming that every one of them is personally out to wreck the country. She stands a hell of a lot better chance getting Kate Hoey to vote with her than Rees Mogg, yet she's not even attempting to tone down the aggression and look to win cross-Parliament votes.

Puja

For every Lab MP she might persuade she loses two Cons for the concessions she has to make.
As for the suggestion that she attacked them all and said they’re all out to personally wreck the country, other than saying it’s in keeping with the current mood of ridiculous hyperbole I’ve nothing else. For what it’s worth, there have been entreaties from No10 to some Lab MP’s and it’s gone absolutely nowhere.
That’s not to say she’s made a good job of it (far from it and I think she’s a terrible leader) but to lump all the blame on her whilst casting Lab as bullied victims is ridiculous.

We're talking at cross-purposes, ironically due to hyperbole. I'm not casting Labour as bullied victims, nor lumping all the blame on her - everyone's to blame for the mess we have. However, May isn't even attempting to do anything constructive at the moment - her sole plan appears to be time wasting and hoping her deal looks better with less time on the clock. *That* I blame her for - she's supposed to be leading the country, not just attempting to hold onto the Conservatives.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Well, she knows she can't get a majority for her deal from her party no matter what she does, but there are quite a number of Labour MPs who would be interested in a deal or might be swayed to avoid a no deal... if she hadn't spent the last two years attacking them and claiming that every one of them is personally out to wreck the country. She stands a hell of a lot better chance getting Kate Hoey to vote with her than Rees Mogg, yet she's not even attempting to tone down the aggression and look to win cross-Parliament votes.

Puja

For every Lab MP she might persuade she loses two Cons for the concessions she has to make.
As for the suggestion that she attacked them all and said they’re all out to personally wreck the country, other than saying it’s in keeping with the current mood of ridiculous hyperbole I’ve nothing else. For what it’s worth, there have been entreaties from No10 to some Lab MP’s and it’s gone absolutely nowhere.
That’s not to say she’s made a good job of it (far from it and I think she’s a terrible leader) but to lump all the blame on her whilst casting Lab as bullied victims is ridiculous.

We're talking at cross-purposes, ironically due to hyperbole. I'm not casting Labour as bullied victims, nor lumping all the blame on her - everyone's to blame for the mess we have. However, May isn't even attempting to do anything constructive at the moment - her sole plan appears to be time wasting and hoping her deal looks better with less time on the clock. *That* I blame her for - she's supposed to be leading the country, not just attempting to hold onto the Conservatives.

Puja

You said the last two years attacking Lab MPs accusing them of personally trying to ‘wreck the country’ which is utter rubbish and does sound like you are accusing her of bullying them. I agree her actions in that time, and particularly in the last month, have been hopeless but who has done any better? No one.
Trying to lump this all on her is ridiculous - which is what your original post alluded to as you didn’t mention anyone else and implied all she had to do was reach across the house to end the impasse.
Even the Lib Dems with their handful of MPs can’t maintain a consistent line. I say this knowing nothing about them other than someone resigned the whip. Even with their allegedly heavy hitting leader and with supposedly the majority of the country behind their policy of stopping Brexit they’re virtually anonymous.
You’re right that it’s a shit show across the board, but if you post something that boils down to ‘if only May hadn’t spent the last two years ‘attacking’ Lab MPs and only needed to reach across the house to solve it all’, then don’t be surprised if I point out that she isn’t solely to blame and that your point is a utterly one-sided and false.

I really hate defending her as she’s hopeless, but to make out she’s solely to blame for all this is ridiculous.

[Mellsblue]

Let’s face it, its irrelevant whether he said woman or people, whether May is to blame or not. The bloke has laid a wreath at the graves of terrorists and it made no difference to the true believers.

[Puja]

For every Lab MP she might persuade she loses two Cons for the concessions she has to make.
As for the suggestion that she attacked them all and said they’re all out to personally wreck the country, other than saying it’s in keeping with the current mood of ridiculous hyperbole I’ve nothing else. For what it’s worth, there have been entreaties from No10 to some Lab MP’s and it’s gone absolutely nowhere.
That’s not to say she’s made a good job of it (far from it and I think she’s a terrible leader) but to lump all the blame on her whilst casting Lab as bullied victims is ridiculous.

We're talking at cross-purposes, ironically due to hyperbole. I'm not casting Labour as bullied victims, nor lumping all the blame on her - everyone's to blame for the mess we have. However, May isn't even attempting to do anything constructive at the moment - her sole plan appears to be time wasting and hoping her deal looks better with less time on the clock. *That* I blame her for - she's supposed to be leading the country, not just attempting to hold onto the Conservatives.

Puja

You said the last two years attacking Lab MPs accusing them of personally trying to ‘wreck the country’ which is utter rubbish and does sound like you are accusing her of bullying them. I agree her actions in that time, and particularly in the last month, have been hopeless but who has done any better? No one.
Trying to lump this all on her is ridiculous - which is what your original post alluded to as you didn’t mention anyone else and implied all she had to do was reach across the house to end the impasse.
Even the Lib Dems with their handful of MPs can’t maintain a consistent line. I say this knowing nothing about them other than someone resigned the whip. Even with their allegedly heavy hitting leader and with supposedly the majority of the country behind their policy of stopping Brexit they’re virtually anonymous.
You’re right that it’s a shit show across the board, but if you post something that boils down to ‘if only May hadn’t spent the last two years ‘attacking’ Lab MPs and only needed to reach across the house to solve it all’, then don’t be surprised if I point out that she isn’t solely to blame and that your point is a utterly one-sided and false.

I really hate defending her as she’s hopeless, but to make out she’s solely to blame for all this is ridiculous.

Okay, you're extrapolating a *lot* from what I'm saying and none of it was intended from my side. She's not solely to blame, I'm not suggesting she "only needed to reach across the house to solve it all." She has made her leadership very adversarial with Labour and I regard that as being a) problematic, b) incredibly stupid once the election result came back and she had no majority, and c) leaving her high and dry now where she has no hope of getting the votes she needs. The situation is not entirely down to this, I am not blaming everything on her, everyone else is to blame too, and having dignified adult politics would not be a universal panacea. It just happens to be what I'm complaining about today.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

We're talking at cross-purposes, ironically due to hyperbole. I'm not casting Labour as bullied victims, nor lumping all the blame on her - everyone's to blame for the mess we have. However, May isn't even attempting to do anything constructive at the moment - her sole plan appears to be time wasting and hoping her deal looks better with less time on the clock. *That* I blame her for - she's supposed to be leading the country, not just attempting to hold onto the Conservatives.

Puja

You said the last two years attacking Lab MPs accusing them of personally trying to ‘wreck the country’ which is utter rubbish and does sound like you are accusing her of bullying them. I agree her actions in that time, and particularly in the last month, have been hopeless but who has done any better? No one.
Trying to lump this all on her is ridiculous - which is what your original post alluded to as you didn’t mention anyone else and implied all she had to do was reach across the house to end the impasse.
Even the Lib Dems with their handful of MPs can’t maintain a consistent line. I say this knowing nothing about them other than someone resigned the whip. Even with their allegedly heavy hitting leader and with supposedly the majority of the country behind their policy of stopping Brexit they’re virtually anonymous.
You’re right that it’s a shit show across the board, but if you post something that boils down to ‘if only May hadn’t spent the last two years ‘attacking’ Lab MPs and only needed to reach across the house to solve it all’, then don’t be surprised if I point out that she isn’t solely to blame and that your point is a utterly one-sided and false.

I really hate defending her as she’s hopeless, but to make out she’s solely to blame for all this is ridiculous.

Okay, you're extrapolating a *lot* from what I'm saying and none of it was intended from my side. She's not solely to blame, I'm not suggesting she "only needed to reach across the house to solve it all." She has made her leadership very adversarial with Labour and I regard that as being a) problematic, b) incredibly stupid once the election result came back and she had no majority, and c) leaving her high and dry now where she has no hope of getting the votes she needs. The situation is not entirely down to this, I am not blaming everything on her, everyone else is to blame too, and having dignified adult politics would not be a universal panacea. It just happens to be what I'm complaining about today.

Puja

Fair enough, but if you’re going to accuse May of spending the “last two years attacking them and claiming that every one of them is personally out to wreck the country” but only say that Corbyn could do better then I’ll call you out for being one-eyed.
As for calling her adversarial. It’s adversarial politics that our democracy is based on. It’s why the opposing sides sit opposite each other and there is a line in front of each front bench the distance between which is just longer than the span of two arms each holding a sword. You can wish for her to work with Labour but there’s been no signs of them being willing to work with her - those five tests are impossible to meet, as they know - and, as I said earlier, for every concession she makes to gain a Lab MP she’ll lose two from her side.
The entire thing is a shit show with the most incompetent bunch of party leaders in a very very long time, saddled with a bunch of entrenched, uncoooperative MPs most of whom refuse to compromise or even accept the result of the referendum.

[Puja]

You said the last two years attacking Lab MPs accusing them of personally trying to ‘wreck the country’ which is utter rubbish and does sound like you are accusing her of bullying them. I agree her actions in that time, and particularly in the last month, have been hopeless but who has done any better? No one.
Trying to lump this all on her is ridiculous - which is what your original post alluded to as you didn’t mention anyone else and implied all she had to do was reach across the house to end the impasse.
Even the Lib Dems with their handful of MPs can’t maintain a consistent line. I say this knowing nothing about them other than someone resigned the whip. Even with their allegedly heavy hitting leader and with supposedly the majority of the country behind their policy of stopping Brexit they’re virtually anonymous.
You’re right that it’s a shit show across the board, but if you post something that boils down to ‘if only May hadn’t spent the last two years ‘attacking’ Lab MPs and only needed to reach across the house to solve it all’, then don’t be surprised if I point out that she isn’t solely to blame and that your point is a utterly one-sided and false.

I really hate defending her as she’s hopeless, but to make out she’s solely to blame for all this is ridiculous.

Okay, you're extrapolating a *lot* from what I'm saying and none of it was intended from my side. She's not solely to blame, I'm not suggesting she "only needed to reach across the house to solve it all." She has made her leadership very adversarial with Labour and I regard that as being a) problematic, b) incredibly stupid once the election result came back and she had no majority, and c) leaving her high and dry now where she has no hope of getting the votes she needs. The situation is not entirely down to this, I am not blaming everything on her, everyone else is to blame too, and having dignified adult politics would not be a universal panacea. It just happens to be what I'm complaining about today.

Puja

Fair enough, but if you’re going to accuse May of spending the “last two years attacking them and claiming that every one of them is personally out to wreck the country” but only say that Corbyn could do better then I’ll call you out for being one-eyed.
As for calling her adversarial. It’s adversarial politics that our democracy is based on. It’s why the opposing sides sit opposite each other and there is a line in front of each front bench the distance between which is just longer than the span of two arms each holding a sword. You can wish for her to work with Labour but there’s been no signs of them being willing to work with her - those five tests are impossible to meet, as they know - and, as I said earlier, for every concession she makes to gain a Lab MP she’ll lose two from her side.
The entire thing is a shit show with the most incompetent bunch of party leaders in a very very long time, saddled with a bunch of entrenched, uncoooperative MPs most of whom refuse to compromise or even accept the result of the referendum.

I'm not saying that Corbyn could do better (albiet I'm not sure how he could be worse, but that's a low bar to trip over). The five tests are, as you said, just a trolling exercise, and Labour's Brexit policy is to watm their hands on the fire of the Conservative party. I just wish we had some goddamned adults in there willing to take some actual responsibility.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Okay, you're extrapolating a *lot* from what I'm saying and none of it was intended from my side. She's not solely to blame, I'm not suggesting she "only needed to reach across the house to solve it all." She has made her leadership very adversarial with Labour and I regard that as being a) problematic, b) incredibly stupid once the election result came back and she had no majority, and c) leaving her high and dry now where she has no hope of getting the votes she needs. The situation is not entirely down to this, I am not blaming everything on her, everyone else is to blame too, and having dignified adult politics would not be a universal panacea. It just happens to be what I'm complaining about today.

Puja

Fair enough, but if you’re going to accuse May of spending the “last two years attacking them and claiming that every one of them is personally out to wreck the country” but only say that Corbyn could do better then I’ll call you out for being one-eyed.
As for calling her adversarial. It’s adversarial politics that our democracy is based on. It’s why the opposing sides sit opposite each other and there is a line in front of each front bench the distance between which is just longer than the span of two arms each holding a sword. You can wish for her to work with Labour but there’s been no signs of them being willing to work with her - those five tests are impossible to meet, as they know - and, as I said earlier, for every concession she makes to gain a Lab MP she’ll lose two from her side.
The entire thing is a shit show with the most incompetent bunch of party leaders in a very very long time, saddled with a bunch of entrenched, uncoooperative MPs most of whom refuse to compromise or even accept the result of the referendum.

I'm not saying that Corbyn could do better (albiet I'm not sure how he could be worse, but that's a low bar to trip over). The five tests are, as you said, just a trolling exercise, and Labour's Brexit policy is to watm their hands on the fire of the Conservative party. I just wish we had some goddamned adults in there willing to take some actual responsibility.

Puja

Something we can all agree on. In the spirit of our newly found consensus, Merry Xmas everyone. Enjoy it, it may be back to coal and tangerines next year....just like the good ol’ days.