6N Retrospectoscope

[Which Tyler]

So, hindsight is 20/20, how do we analyse this international window?

Biggest positive for me is the arrival of Slade as an international player - we already knew that Curry and Wilson could do it at this level, but their partnership with Billy has also been a joy to watch.
Genge and Sinkler showing that they're up to starting internationals is also a very good thing.


On the less-good side of the coin is Eddie's tactical intransigence, and his selection based on that.
For example, Farrell (sorry) was great against Ireland, and good against France; but he's still too rugby-by-numbers for me (and those 2 teams played straight into our hands from the off). He's great at following the play book, but as Wales, Italy and Scotland showed - he's still poor at adapting to what's going on around him. He's very good at "follow me into the breach" leadership, but equally poor at tactical leadership. He's also improved out of sight in talking to the ref - mostly by avoiding doing so.

We really need a scrum half. Barring the odd 1-2 matches a year, Youngs is not up to being a first choice starter. Like Faz though, he's untouchable, and no-one else is allowed a chance to show what they could do. Equally, we've got Te'o Hughes and Shields as Eddie's favourites, though thankfully he seems to have given up on starting them, they're just further examples that Eddie has decided England can't play heads up rugby, and therefore aren't allowed to try.

In summary
Front row: Largely positive, but boy do we miss Hartley's leadership (now there's a sentence I never thought I'd type 4 years ago)
Second row: 4 brilliant options, some promise behind them, but as yet unfulfilled.
Back row: Has become a real strength this year (including bench when all fit), but the depth just hasn't shown anything at international level, whilst those better club form don't get a chance.

Halfbacks: Our decision makers, tempo-setters, tactical generals and skipper - comfortably the weakest aspect of our team, but completely untouchable. Are they tactically inept? Or are those the orders from on high?
Centres: You can't pick a bad pairing from Manu, JJ and Slade unfortunately all are better at OC than IC, and unfortunately, Eddie will always find a way to fit Te'o in.
Back 3: Several brilliant options on the wing, but Daly still not a FB. If Brown is never coming back in then we need to pray that Watson comes back confident and firing. Surprised Woodward hasn't been given a shot, good form, and a SH accent!

Coaching: As ever, there are some good signs; but real problems with selection, favouritism and stubbornness.

[Oakboy]

Excellent summation.

We are not where we ought to be as a team. Consistency of performance is not there. Lots of SH opinion predicted that Jones would end up just where he is - occasionally good/inspired but failing to achieve a smooth upward path of improvement. I hoped Mitchell would add some grit and solidity but we are still patchy.

Roll on 2020.

[Mr Mwenda]

Out of interest, where 'should' England be. I'm not convinced the squad is good enough to be favourites in the 6n regardless of coaching. It's pretty even at the top.

[switchskier]

Out of interest, where 'should' England be. I'm not convinced the squad is good enough to be favourites in the 6n regardless of coaching. It's pretty even at the top.

Man for man I agree, it's pretty close. However England for have greater depth than any other 6N team (the drop off to third/fourth choice is much lower) so they should enter the 6N as favourites more often than not given it's a fairly relentless 5 game tournament.

[Banquo]

Plus points- Curry, Billy and Manu getting through uninjured, Sinckler and George. Kruis return to form. Joe C. Some nice options in attack. Intensity for parts of games.
Minus- Daly mixed, lovely entrances into the line, poor in the air. Half backs after the Ireland game.Terrible decision making under real pressure. Huge drop off in intensity in crucial parts of games. Flat track bullies with a single game plan. Too much, and poor kicking post Ireland.
Meh- Genge (17 carries for 9 yards yesterday), somebody needed words with him, he was often in the way. Nowell- elusive but still iffy in defence. Slade was mixed for me too- the system in defence exposed him imo. Set piece Ok.

Probably a bit harsh; overall, our squad has improved in player quality over the season, but have gone backwards in terms of resilience and decision making, and skills and defence have wilted under pressure; I think a change at the top is needed, but at this point more attitudinal than changing the people themselves.

[fivepointer]

Its been hugely frustrating.
When we've been good, we really have been good. We have easily been the best attacking team in the 6N and have scored lots of tries, many of them excellent. Our ball retention has improved enormously and our discipline is miles better.
On the debit side we've failed to be consistently good, save for the performance against Ireland. Parts of our game are terrible. We miss way too many one on one tackles, give up easy yards out wide and kicking from hand can be a lottery.
Jones has got to take some of the blame for the 2nd half issues we continue to have. Just what is he saying at h/t? Why do we let teams beck in, why do we freeze when the pressure builds on us? Also, the use of the bench, which was a strength, is now just completely random.
Playerwise its been a bit mixed too. George, Sinckler, Kruis and Curry have been consistently good up front. May has probably been our best back, though Joe C's one off appearance was outstanding. Been good stuff from almost everyone else but not enough to lift this team up a notch.
2nd place doesnt sound too bad and its where most of us thought we would end up. The problem comes when you look at the performances and you can see parts where we simply arent at the races.

[Stom]

BTW, Nowell's try: started with a lovely cut back pass by Sinck. How many teams have 2 props who can do that?

More thoughts later, just wanted to add that positive point.

[Scrumhead]

Yep. I think it’s the frustration that is the killer. As someone on another forum put it - we’re like the girl with the little curl on her forehead - when we’re good, we’re very, very good, but when we’re bad, we’re horrid.

I think we’re pretty much all in agreement on the pros and cons.

Eddie has got a $hitload to work on and almost all of the issues are of his own making.

[Banquo]

Yep. I think it’s the frustration that is the killer. As someone on another forum put it - we’re like the girl with the little curl on her forehead - when we’re good, we’re very, very good, but when we’re bad, we’re horrid.

I think we’re pretty much all in agreement on the pros and cons.

Eddie has got a $hitload to work on and almost all of the issues are of his own making.

Look at Genge- he did a lovely carry and pop pass to put Sinckler on a nice line through to the full back. The rest of his many carries went nowhere except backwards, and he was often static and in the way. Less is more in his case!- and that's a lack of communication as much as anything.

[Scrumhead]

Yep. That captures it well. Who is telling Genge to gtf out the way though?

[Banquo]

Yep. That captures it well. Who is telling Genge to gtf out the way though?

hence my lack of communication point; one of Youngs or Faz should be doing it you'd think.

[Digby]

Was Genge just mentally not at the races having not remotely been ready to come off the bench so early? Not so much an excuse if true but something to work on

[Stom]

Yep. That captures it well. Who is telling Genge to gtf out the way though?

hence my lack of communication point; one of Youngs or Faz should be doing it you'd think.

Which is the reason so many of us "blame" them, but apparently that's because we don't understand the game...

[Banquo]

Yep. That captures it well. Who is telling Genge to gtf out the way though?

hence my lack of communication point; one of Youngs or Faz should be doing it you'd think.

Which is the reason so many of us "blame" them, but apparently that's because we don't understand the game...

[WaspInWales]

So happy Billy and Manu made it through uninjured. They both had a great tournament tbh.

Curry was absolutely outstanding. Our player of the tournament imo. Harshly picked up a few penalties too...but that's just my opinion.

A few others had decent games, Genge, Sinckler, Daly, Slade, Wilson, Kruis (in no particular order).

9 and 10 remain massive issues. The kicking game worked ok against an out of form Ireland and a French team that didn't realise the match was being played in UK time. France were massively shit at Twickenham. Not hugely great at any time in the tournament tbh. C'est typique, non?

It was great beating Ireland though. Our moment of the tournament. They were poor, lacked their usual accuracy and power which continued as the tournament did, but I thought we played a blinder tactically.

Then we fucked it all up against Wales by not adapting to what was happening, and didn't have an answer to Scotland deciding to try to win against us.

2nd though...wow. I just hope Eddie doesn't try clinging on to that as a way of excusing the issues. Ireland, France and Italy rolled over. Wales played the 80 and Scotland had a crack at it.

[richy678]

A fit for purpose Backrow. Motivated and dynamic flankers in Curry and Wilson, a 6 and a 7.

A strength in depth at prop with Sinckler possibly going to be really outstanding.

Confirmation of having 4 top draw locks, when all fit.

Jamie George clearly top of pecking order at 2, however his clean breaks have dried up.

Pack sounds good doesn't it!

At half back the strategy seems to be univentive with the box kick from 9 over used. I am maybe not seeing whatever Young's is doing as a pure scrum half that's winding everybody up, apart from tactically box kicking too much, I note mention of his stats showing not enough tackling etc. If they've played past set moves and the next ruck has been completed, if he hasn't got a runner or a move is not called surely it's an attack/leadership/confidence thing from everyone.

May has matured into a top draw winger.

Manu not injured.

Game time for Slade.

Watson desperately needed back in back 3.

JJ is a good defender.

[Stom]

A fit for purpose Backrow. Motivated and dynamic flankers in Curry and Wilson, a 6 and a 7.

A strength in depth at prop with Sinckler possibly going to be really outstanding.

Confirmation of having 4 top draw locks, when all fit.

Jamie George clearly top of pecking order at 2, however his clean breaks have dried up.

Pack sounds good doesn't it!

At half back the strategy seems to be univentive with the box kick from 9 over used. I am maybe not seeing whatever Young's is doing as a pure scrum half that's winding everybody up, apart from tactically box kicking too much, I note mention of his stats showing not enough tackling etc. If they've played past set moves and the next ruck has been completed, if he hasn't got a runner or a move is not called surely it's an attack/leadership/confidence thing from everyone.

May has matured into a top draw winger.

Manu not injured.

Game time for Slade.

Watson desperately needed back in back 3.

JJ is a good defender.

Youngs may possibly be the slowest SH to the breakdown since Peter Richards. And once he gets there, he just stares at the ball for another second. All the while the opposition are getting into position.

Now, this isn't the case all the time and as shown my the warlh tries, wgen he gets it away quickly it's super smooth. So why can't he do it at least half the time?

[Scrumhead]

Yep. If I’ve understood your second paragraph, I think Youngs actually deserves some credit for our first half tries. The passes for Launchbury’s try and after the quick tap penalty leading to May’s try, were both very good (one miss pass l-r, one r-l) so he can do it. He’s just infuriatingly inconsistent.

He still contributed a lot more than Farrell.

[Banquo]

Yep. If I’ve understood your second paragraph, I think Youngs actually deserves some credit for our first half tries. The passes for Launchbury’s try and after the quick tap penalty leading to May’s try, were both very good (one miss pass l-r, one r-l) so he can do it. He’s just infuriatingly inconsistent.

He still contributed a lot more than Farrell.

He can't pass long and well l-r without an adjust and at least one step, its poor; frankly Faz is similar. Worst part of Youngs play is the chewing gum he has for (some of his) neurons- and the sharpness of the kicking neurons. He has kicked away a load of good turnover ball; plus the amount of non-contestable kicks shot up under the pressure of scotlands comeback.....he's always been a little bit careless as well in checking whether the winger who is meant to chase is actually in a position to do so!

[Stom]

Positives:

Manu is back playing an he is holding the defense with his presence...
Slade has arrived at last.
May has turned into a truly world class wing.
Daly's entering of the line really gives us an excellent attacking option, especially with these double cut-backs that slice the opposition open. We've scored several tries like that now and it's really effective when used.
George looks to the manor born. He's a real leader in that pack, tbh...
We now have a pair of starting props who are surely the envy of the world for their open play. Very good.
Wilson and Curry are a really good team and work incredibly well together.

Negatives:

Leadership, or the absence of such. It's incredible how poor we are when things are not going our way. Right now, we are the dictionary definition of flat track bullies.
Daly under the high ball is poor. He is also poor at kicking accuracy (I don't think I've seen another player kick too long more often).
Adaptation to changes in tempo. We set an early tempo, scoring quickly and putting the opposition under crazy scoreboard pressure. Then we look to slow the game down, which would appear to be the right decision...but it's so pre-meditated that when the opposition get on top and try to up the tempo again, we cannot adapt at all. In fact, we become so caught in the headlights that we cannot do anything to stop it.

On that last point, I'm going to use an exact example from the game: the buildup to Ford's try.

Now most armchair fans probably didn't even notice Ford there. But he stood deep and moved forward as the ball came, taking the ball at pace to the line before passing to a forward who made yards and dropping back before he got involved in the scrap, readying for the next phase. He did this 4-5 times.

Why should I highlight this? It's standard FH play: you identify the weakness, you marshall your troops, you organise and you execute. Yet we have never seen that kind of play from Farrell in an England jersey. When he sets runners through, he does it from a stationary start and it relies on the individual excellence of the carrier.

Now Ford isn't doing what Sexton does in taking the ball right to the line and putting someone through a hole while being taken out. That requires excellence and it means that next phase there will be no 10. No, Ford takes all pressure off everyone else. They don't need to be the best carrier around, they just need to take a ball at reasonable pace and present it well once tackled. It didn't make massive yards, but it made yards for 5 phases before we got to within 10 metres and then...well, Ford did something different.

Just like cricket. Bowl 5 outswingers before hitting them with an inswinger last ball that knocks out off-stump.

We need George Ford at 10 for England. We have the biggest, hardest carrying pack I've seen since 2003. Just think about it: Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Wilson, Curry, Billy...all running off a FH who has the control and vision to execute.

[Banquo]

well now we've all said the same stuff 6 or 7 times, where does that leave us?

[Mellsblue]

With Retrospectoscope giving us a colonoscopy.

[Timbo]

well now we've all said the same stuff 6 or 7 times, where does that leave us?

With Captain Faz-tastic?

[Banquo]

well now we've all said the same stuff 6 or 7 times, where does that leave us?

With Captain Faz-tastic?

who is the Brown Dirt cowboy...

[Digby]

well now we've all said the same stuff 6 or 7 times, where does that leave us?

With Captain Faz-tastic?

who is the Brown Dirt cowboy...

We've thrown in the towel too many times