Ukranian election

[Puja]

Just to make everyone else feel better about their broken politican systems, Ukraine look likely to elect a joke candidate for President in a landslide - a comedian who has no policies, has shied away from any and all political norms, has made no genuine promises or manifestos to the populace, and whose only qualification is having played the president in a comedy television programme. People are literally rewatching the program to try and glean hints on what his actual stances are on things.

No-one knows what he's for, what he's against, what he wants to do, or how he wants to do it, no-one knows if he has even the slightest capability of leading a country, but he's going to win by a landslide because he's not the hated incumbent.

Democracy, ladies and gentlemen.

Puja

[zer0]

Are you suggesting that an alternative form of governance be adopted? Perhaps an anarcho-syndicalist commune? One where we take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week?

[Puja]

Are you suggesting that an alternative form of governance be adopted? Perhaps an anarcho-syndicalist commune? One where we take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week?

My disdain for democracy in general has been well aired on the Brexit thread - polling the opinions of the general populace doesn't generally get you a wise answer or one that's in the interests of the people, especially when the populace at large is as thick as two short planks.

I don't know what I'd suggest to replace it though. Wise and benign dictatorship would work, if you could find a wise and benign dictator outside of a fantasy novel. Maybe if parliament was selected by random lot, with 1 year's mandatory training and education on selection, before starting a 10 year term? That way you'd have a better selection of knowledge in Parliament as it would get people from all walks of life rather than just professional politicians.

Puja

[Banquo]

Are you suggesting that an alternative form of governance be adopted? Perhaps an anarcho-syndicalist commune? One where we take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week?

My disdain for democracy in general has been well aired on the Brexit thread - polling the opinions of the general populace doesn't generally get you a wise answer or one that's in the interests of the people, especially when the populace at large is as thick as two short planks.

I don't know what I'd suggest to replace it though. Wise and benign dictatorship would work, if you could find a wise and benign dictator outside of a fantasy novel. Maybe if parliament was selected by random lot, with 1 year's mandatory training and education on selection, before starting a 10 year term? That way you'd have a better selection of knowledge in Parliament as it would get people from all walks of life rather than just professional politicians.

Puja

...that's how it used to be, young man

[Zhivago]

Just to make everyone else feel better about their broken politican systems, Ukraine look likely to elect a joke candidate for President in a landslide - a comedian who has no policies, has shied away from any and all political norms, has made no genuine promises or manifestos to the populace, and whose only qualification is having played the president in a comedy television programme. People are literally rewatching the program to try and glean hints on what his actual stances are on things.

No-one knows what he's for, what he's against, what he wants to do, or how he wants to do it, no-one knows if he has even the slightest capability of leading a country, but he's going to win by a landslide because he's not the hated incumbent.

Democracy, ladies and gentlemen.

Puja

I watched the debate. Very sureal, atmosphere felt like a boxing match or something.

At one point Poroshenko asked Zelenskyy what his plans were for next 5 years, he replied that his plans were to eliminate everyone from Poroshenko's circle.

[Puja]

Are you suggesting that an alternative form of governance be adopted? Perhaps an anarcho-syndicalist commune? One where we take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week?

My disdain for democracy in general has been well aired on the Brexit thread - polling the opinions of the general populace doesn't generally get you a wise answer or one that's in the interests of the people, especially when the populace at large is as thick as two short planks.

I don't know what I'd suggest to replace it though. Wise and benign dictatorship would work, if you could find a wise and benign dictator outside of a fantasy novel. Maybe if parliament was selected by random lot, with 1 year's mandatory training and education on selection, before starting a 10 year term? That way you'd have a better selection of knowledge in Parliament as it would get people from all walks of life rather than just professional politicians.

Puja

...that's how it used to be, young man

Not sure it's been propely like that in either of our lifetimes. If ever - politicians self-select as a part of the populace that can afford to stop working and campaign without the guarantee of a job afterwards. You won't get many nurses or teachers who can do that, let alone factory workers or retail staff.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

My disdain for democracy in general has been well aired on the Brexit thread - polling the opinions of the general populace doesn't generally get you a wise answer or one that's in the interests of the people, especially when the populace at large is as thick as two short planks.

I don't know what I'd suggest to replace it though. Wise and benign dictatorship would work, if you could find a wise and benign dictator outside of a fantasy novel. Maybe if parliament was selected by random lot, with 1 year's mandatory training and education on selection, before starting a 10 year term? That way you'd have a better selection of knowledge in Parliament as it would get people from all walks of life rather than just professional politicians.

Puja

...that's how it used to be, young man

Not sure it's been propely like that in either of our lifetimes. If ever - politicians self-select as a part of the populace that can afford to stop working and campaign without the guarantee of a job afterwards. You won't get many nurses or teachers who can do that, let alone factory workers or retail staff.

Puja

There are plenty of MPs who work whilst campaigning.

[Puja]

...that's how it used to be, young man

Not sure it's been propely like that in either of our lifetimes. If ever - politicians self-select as a part of the populace that can afford to stop working and campaign without the guarantee of a job afterwards. You won't get many nurses or teachers who can do that, let alone factory workers or retail staff.

Puja

There are plenty of MPs who work whilst campaigning.

In factories or retail? Or any job requiring a 40 hour week?

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Not sure it's been propely like that in either of our lifetimes. If ever - politicians self-select as a part of the populace that can afford to stop working and campaign without the guarantee of a job afterwards. You won't get many nurses or teachers who can do that, let alone factory workers or retail staff.

Puja

There are plenty of MPs who work whilst campaigning.

In factories or retail? Or any job requiring a 40 hour week?

Puja

From jobs requiring 40+ hr weeks, yes. Those from the shop floor tend to prefer union jobs - less pressure, less scrutiny, similar perks and pay - but there are still some, yes.

[Banquo]

My disdain for democracy in general has been well aired on the Brexit thread - polling the opinions of the general populace doesn't generally get you a wise answer or one that's in the interests of the people, especially when the populace at large is as thick as two short planks.

I don't know what I'd suggest to replace it though. Wise and benign dictatorship would work, if you could find a wise and benign dictator outside of a fantasy novel. Maybe if parliament was selected by random lot, with 1 year's mandatory training and education on selection, before starting a 10 year term? That way you'd have a better selection of knowledge in Parliament as it would get people from all walks of life rather than just professional politicians.

Puja

...that's how it used to be, young man

Not sure it's been propely like that in either of our lifetimes. If ever - politicians self-select as a part of the populace that can afford to stop working and campaign without the guarantee of a job afterwards. You won't get many nurses or teachers who can do that, let alone factory workers or retail staff.

Puja

I'm a fair bit older than you.

[morepork]

We look to have gone full retard globally. After 40-odd years of supply side economic voodoo and the mantra of running a country like a business (aka, fucking it in the arse and ditching it when it can't take any more) we appear to have engineered a generation devoid of anything resembling what could objectively be said to be qualified for public office. Science is bad, men are oppressed, and there is an apparent genocide being waged against "western values" (what ever that means) within the toxic confines of the online cult of confirmation bias. Welcome to the dark ages ladies and gentlemen, and fuck you all.

[Puja]

...that's how it used to be, young man

Not sure it's been propely like that in either of our lifetimes. If ever - politicians self-select as a part of the populace that can afford to stop working and campaign without the guarantee of a job afterwards. You won't get many nurses or teachers who can do that, let alone factory workers or retail staff.

Puja

I'm a fair bit older than you.

How much older to remember a properly representative parliament? Genuine question - when did it turn?

Puja

[Banquo]

Not sure it's been propely like that in either of our lifetimes. If ever - politicians self-select as a part of the populace that can afford to stop working and campaign without the guarantee of a job afterwards. You won't get many nurses or teachers who can do that, let alone factory workers or retail staff.

Puja

I'm a fair bit older than you.

How much older to remember a properly representative parliament? Genuine question - when did it turn?

Puja

It really depends what you mean by truly representative frankly - even now a bit of googling shows that parliament has a much broader mix of backgrounds than you’d think. I’d think that if there was such a thing as a tipping point it’d be Blair-time, when the Labour Party changed radically.

[Puja]

I'm a fair bit older than you.

How much older to remember a properly representative parliament? Genuine question - when did it turn?

Puja

It really depends what you mean by truly representative frankly - even now a bit of googling shows that parliament has a much broader mix of backgrounds than you’d think. I’d think that if there was such a thing as a tipping point it’d be Blair-time, when the Labour Party changed radically.

Mind, before New Labour, the crappiness of FPtP, the hardening of party lines, and Tory dominance meant that the early 90s were mostly the Conservative party arguing with itself, rather actual parliament, which wasn't particularly representative.

I think you're right though, Blair was the tipping point.

Puja

[Puja]

And over the weekend, the joke candidate has now officially become leader of Ukraine. Hooray.

Puja

[Digby]

How was Blair the tipping point, indeed what changed under Blair?

[Banquo]

How was Blair the tipping point, indeed what changed under Blair?

winning

[Digby]

How was Blair the tipping point, indeed what changed under Blair?

winning

Have I been confusing Tony Blair and Charlie Sheen all these years? It would I suppose help explain PFI if the then PM had been mainlining class A narcotics