Obesity as a disease

[Mikey Brown]

Just going to throw this out there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49795808

Is this one for the PC gone mad brigade?

If experts are really saying that 'obesity is not a choice' like that's a black and white fact, that does seem a bit irresponsible.

"It calls for changes in language to reduce stigma, such as saying "a person with obesity" rather than an "obese person".

And it says health professionals should be trained to talk about weight loss in a more supportive way."

The second sentence seems like common sense/compassion, but the first one just seems... pointless?

I reserve the right to do a full 180 on this at any moment.

[J Dory]

Just going to throw this out there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49795808

Is this one for the PC gone mad brigade?

If experts are really saying that 'obesity is not a choice' like that's a black and white fact, that does seem a bit irresponsible.

"It calls for changes in language to reduce stigma, such as saying "a person with obesity" rather than an "obese person".

And it says health professionals should be trained to talk about weight loss in a more supportive way."

The second sentence seems like common sense/compassion, but the first one just seems... pointless?

I reserve the right to do a full 180 on this at any moment.

Fat idiot is my favourite insult, they can't take that away from me.

[Digby]

It's worse than a disease when you're the one stuck next to a fat person when seated at a concert, rugby game or on a plane/train. Though I do retain sympathy for the fat American who bought two plane tickets realising he was on the large side and found they'd booked them either side of the aisle

[morepork]

There is definitely a congenital metabolic element to some of it, and the stress thing isn't entirely irrelevent. For me the biggest obstacle to stressed poor people staying off the obese end of the scale is the lack of proper food locally. In the US, the USDA produces maps of areas of the country where fresh healthy food is readily available, and identifies areas that are devoid of fresh healthy food providers as "food deserts". The void in quality food is filled by cheap, processed, sugary fatty shit. If you work 12-plus hours a day, rely on public transport and are in the middle of one of these armpits of society, then your options are limited. KFC here I come.

[Digby]

Why does working 12 hours a day stop one eating a more sensible range of foods?

[Stones of granite]

When I moved to the US I put on 10kg without batting an eyelid. I didn’t catch a disease or even very much change my eating habits, but the quantity of sugar and other shite that is in everyday food like bread is staggering.

After about a year, I caught myself on and lost 30kg in a year, still eating normal food but being more careful about what I ate.

[Donny osmond]

Why does working 12 hours a day stop one eating a more sensible range of foods?

When you're tired and stressed all the time you aren't going to make good or sensible decisions, esp when some food is tasty quick and easy, and some is even slightly more difficult to prep, you're going to take the easy option. And when that is happening every day its going to make you fat.

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[morepork]

Why does working 12 hours a day stop one eating a more sensible range of foods?

If you don't own wheels it can be challenging getting somewhere that doesn't sell total shit for food either at lunch time, before, or after work.

[morepork]

When I moved to the US I put on 10kg without batting an eyelid. I didn’t catch a disease or even very much change my eating habits, but the quantity of sugar and other shite that is in everyday food like bread is staggering.

After about a year, I caught myself on and lost 30kg in a year, still eating normal food but being more careful about what I ate.

It's fucking criminal. What passes for staple food here is a joke. NZ is pretty bad in the provinces too. Fish and chips with 2 litres of fizzy sugar water 3-4 times a week will fuck your shit right up.

[Stones of granite]

When I moved to the US I put on 10kg without batting an eyelid. I didn’t catch a disease or even very much change my eating habits, but the quantity of sugar and other shite that is in everyday food like bread is staggering.

After about a year, I caught myself on and lost 30kg in a year, still eating normal food but being more careful about what I ate.

It's fucking criminal. What passes for staple food here is a joke. NZ is pretty bad in the provinces too. Fish and chips with 2 litres of fizzy sugar water 3-4 times a week will fuck your shit right up.

I can’t claim that Scotland is any better - it demonstrably isn’t. Google munchy box in an idle moment.

[morepork]

When I moved to the US I put on 10kg without batting an eyelid. I didn’t catch a disease or even very much change my eating habits, but the quantity of sugar and other shite that is in everyday food like bread is staggering.

After about a year, I caught myself on and lost 30kg in a year, still eating normal food but being more careful about what I ate.

It's fucking criminal. What passes for staple food here is a joke. NZ is pretty bad in the provinces too. Fish and chips with 2 litres of fizzy sugar water 3-4 times a week will fuck your shit right up.

I can’t claim that Scotland is any better - it demonstrably isn’t. Google munchy box in an idle moment.

Jesus titty fucking christ.

[Stones of granite]

It's fucking criminal. What passes for staple food here is a joke. NZ is pretty bad in the provinces too. Fish and chips with 2 litres of fizzy sugar water 3-4 times a week will fuck your shit right up.

I can’t claim that Scotland is any better - it demonstrably isn’t. Google munchy box in an idle moment.

Jesus titty fucking christ.

There is something we lead the world in - congestive heart disease

[morepork]

I'm surprised you aren't on the verge of extinction. How any man could even see their own kok after a life of living on that shit is beyond me.

[Digby]

Why does working 12 hours a day stop one eating a more sensible range of foods?

If you don't own wheels it can be challenging getting somewhere that doesn't sell total shit for food either at lunch time, before, or after work.

And people can't make a sandwich, and/or cook large batches of food at the weekend and freeze portions for the week ahead?

Bit of a mix for me on this one, on the one hand I object to crappy foods, on the other I object to the idea people should be protected from making bad decisions as that seems illiberal

[morepork]

Why does working 12 hours a day stop one eating a more sensible range of foods?

If you don't own wheels it can be challenging getting somewhere that doesn't sell total shit for food either at lunch time, before, or after work.

And people can't make a sandwich, and/or cook large batches of food at the weekend and freeze portions for the week ahead?

Bit of a mix for me on this one, on the one hand I object to crappy foods, on the other I object to the idea people should be protected from making bad decisions as that seems illiberal

I think you are a bit out of touch old chap.

[Digby]

If you don't own wheels it can be challenging getting somewhere that doesn't sell total shit for food either at lunch time, before, or after work.

And people can't make a sandwich, and/or cook large batches of food at the weekend and freeze portions for the week ahead?

Bit of a mix for me on this one, on the one hand I object to crappy foods, on the other I object to the idea people should be protected from making bad decisions as that seems illiberal

I think you are a bit out of touch old chap.

With the notion people can make a sandwich? If people are too lazy to bother I do start to lose interest in helping people who can't be bothered to help themselves.

[Donny osmond]

And people can't make a sandwich, and/or cook large batches of food at the weekend and freeze portions for the week ahead?

Bit of a mix for me on this one, on the one hand I object to crappy foods, on the other I object to the idea people should be protected from making bad decisions as that seems illiberal

I think you are a bit out of touch old chap.

With the notion people can make a sandwich? If people are too lazy to bother I do start to lose interest in helping people who can't be bothered to help themselves.

Digby, mate, think back to some time when you were tired and stressed. Remember how easy it is to not be thinking straight, to make a wrong decision. If you've got time and space you can correct your bad decision, but what if you're tired and stressed literally all the time? What if you never have the time or space to not feel stressed, and in doing so are never able to step back and apply the sort of reasoning that helps you avoid mistakes? It's not about people being lazy, in this material world it's about people being constantly under pressure to earn more, spend more, provide more, live bigger, live 'better' etc etc; and if you're on your own +/or with a low wage, and you can't afford what all the media around you tell you you need, and you're working hard enough just to get by and you're worried about affording the mortgage/rent let alone bills let alone all the extraneous crap... you live in the instant and reach for any solution that is going to make that instant just a little bit easier. The idea of cooking ahead or planning your menu is born out of privilege, it's just no compatible with the stresses that low earners are under.

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[Digby]

I think you are a bit out of touch old chap.

With the notion people can make a sandwich? If people are too lazy to bother I do start to lose interest in helping people who can't be bothered to help themselves.

Digby, mate, think back to some time when you were tired and stressed. Remember how easy it is to not be thinking straight, to make a wrong decision. If you've got time and space you can correct your bad decision, but what if you're tired and stressed literally all the time? What if you never have the time or space to not feel stressed, and in doing so are never able to step back and apply the sort of reasoning that helps you avoid mistakes? It's not about people being lazy, in this material world it's about people being constantly under pressure to earn more, spend more, provide more, live bigger, live 'better' etc etc; and if you're on your own +/or with a low wage, and you can't afford what all the media around you tell you you need, and you're working hard enough just to get by and you're worried about affording the mortgage/rent let alone bills let alone all the extraneous crap... you live in the instant and reach for any solution that is going to make that instant just a little bit easier. The idea of cooking ahead or planning your menu is born out of privilege, it's just no compatible with the stresses that low earners are under.

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I get the problem of not having enough money, if we're talking about people who need to consume things like packets of crushed biscuits just to get the calories and notions of anything else is absurd then fair enough. And if it's of interest to anyone then packets of crushed cheap biscuits is probably the cheapest way to buy calories. But if we're talking about people who can afford KFC or some other crappy restaurant food then cooking ahead is the cheapest way to do it. I'd be a fan of more education around home cooking

And what's the alternative to people taking responsibility for their own lives? Should the state really be able to impose? I know I enjoy a night out, should the state be able to tell me consuming 30 units on a night out simply isn't allowed because of the impact to my health and future health costs?

[belgarion]

Well as a court in Germany has just ruled that hangovers are an illness why not obesity as a disease

[Stones of granite]

Well as a court in Germany has just ruled that hangovers are an illness why not obesity as a disease

I suppose, if you take the German Court ruling out of context, you could do that.

A German court ruled on Monday that hangovers were an "illness."
The judgment came after plaintiffs claimed a company offering anti-hangover "shots" and powders was making unlawful claims about curing the after-effects of alcohol.

Food and drinks cannot be promoted as being able to combat illnesses, the legal statement read.

"Information about a food product cannot ascribe any properties for preventing, treating or healing a human illness or give the impression of such a property," the court's statement said.

"By an illness, one should understand even small or temporary disruptions to the normal state or normal activity of the body," including the tiredness, nausea and headaches the firm claimed its product could alleviate.

https://www.dw.com/en/hangovers-are-an- ... llness.%22

[Stones of granite]

I think you are a bit out of touch old chap.

With the notion people can make a sandwich? If people are too lazy to bother I do start to lose interest in helping people who can't be bothered to help themselves.

Digby, mate, think back to some time when you were tired and stressed. Remember how easy it is to not be thinking straight, to make a wrong decision. If you've got time and space you can correct your bad decision, but what if you're tired and stressed literally all the time? What if you never have the time or space to not feel stressed, and in doing so are never able to step back and apply the sort of reasoning that helps you avoid mistakes? It's not about people being lazy, in this material world it's about people being constantly under pressure to earn more, spend more, provide more, live bigger, live 'better' etc etc; and if you're on your own +/or with a low wage, and you can't afford what all the media around you tell you you need, and you're working hard enough just to get by and you're worried about affording the mortgage/rent let alone bills let alone all the extraneous crap... you live in the instant and reach for any solution that is going to make that instant just a little bit easier. The idea of cooking ahead or planning your menu is born out of privilege, it's just no compatible with the stresses that low earners are under.

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So let's assume that this is correct. Does that make obesity a disease or a symptom of social conditions?

[Numbers]

I think you are a bit out of touch old chap.

With the notion people can make a sandwich? If people are too lazy to bother I do start to lose interest in helping people who can't be bothered to help themselves.

Digby, mate, think back to some time when you were tired and stressed. Remember how easy it is to not be thinking straight, to make a wrong decision. If you've got time and space you can correct your bad decision, but what if you're tired and stressed literally all the time? What if you never have the time or space to not feel stressed, and in doing so are never able to step back and apply the sort of reasoning that helps you avoid mistakes? It's not about people being lazy, in this material world it's about people being constantly under pressure to earn more, spend more, provide more, live bigger, live 'better' etc etc; and if you're on your own +/or with a low wage, and you can't afford what all the media around you tell you you need, and you're working hard enough just to get by and you're worried about affording the mortgage/rent let alone bills let alone all the extraneous crap... you live in the instant and reach for any solution that is going to make that instant just a little bit easier. The idea of cooking ahead or planning your menu is born out of privilege, it's just no compatible with the stresses that low earners are under.

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Well these two things are exacerbated by a poor diet, I see no reason why people can't make beans on toast, making beans on toast takes less time than going to a drive thru..

However, having said this I probably have the worst diet of anyone I know but am blessed by hyperactivity and so don't put any weight on, my cholesterol is probably through the roof mind you so my body shape belies my overall health.

[Puja]

With the notion people can make a sandwich? If people are too lazy to bother I do start to lose interest in helping people who can't be bothered to help themselves.

Digby, mate, think back to some time when you were tired and stressed. Remember how easy it is to not be thinking straight, to make a wrong decision. If you've got time and space you can correct your bad decision, but what if you're tired and stressed literally all the time? What if you never have the time or space to not feel stressed, and in doing so are never able to step back and apply the sort of reasoning that helps you avoid mistakes? It's not about people being lazy, in this material world it's about people being constantly under pressure to earn more, spend more, provide more, live bigger, live 'better' etc etc; and if you're on your own +/or with a low wage, and you can't afford what all the media around you tell you you need, and you're working hard enough just to get by and you're worried about affording the mortgage/rent let alone bills let alone all the extraneous crap... you live in the instant and reach for any solution that is going to make that instant just a little bit easier. The idea of cooking ahead or planning your menu is born out of privilege, it's just no compatible with the stresses that low earners are under.

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Well these two things are exacerbated by a poor diet, I see no reason why people can't make beans on toast, making beans on toast takes less time than going to a drive thru.

In shocking research published today - people with mental health issues sometimes make terrible decisions!

Also, making beans on toast might be easier than a drive through (although that assumes having had the time and energy to go round a supermarket to acquire beans and bread), but JustEat is easier than both and also reinforces a self-perception of oneself as a garbage human being, which a lot of people who are stressed and ill find useful.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Love the idea that a diet based on beans on toast for dinner is healthy. However, in the example we’re discussing, Shirley the disease is depression and not the obesity. I’ll admit to bias as I can’t see how anything that anything that can easily and consciously be avoided can be classed as a disease. Obesity can be due to serious and real problems, rather than because someone is a fat lazy slob, but I struggle with the disease label.

[Digby]

Vorator emptor is my starting point, as a liberal I would people be free to choose their own path, until we're really getting down into some very low IQ individuals.

If the state needs to take action in this area then it has to be by taxing those firms who are selling junk food. This I wouldn't be against, salt and sugar are both very cheap ingredients so if you didn't care about your customers you can make a lot of money if you can sell those two cheap basics in some added value form.