It’s.......

[Sandydragon]

Sir Kier Starmer as the new leader of the Labour Party.

Can he make Labour electable again? Will he purge the left or can he unite the factions?

[Banquo]

Sir Kier Starmer as the new leader of the Labour Party.

Can he make Labour electable again? Will he purge the left or can he unite the factions?

I think their chances were close to zero pre CV19. But this is now an open goal on so many fronts.

[Banquo]

How on earth did Burgon get through to the last three for deputy??

[Donny osmond]

It's nice there's now a grown up in charge.

If he surrounds himself with the right people, anything is possible. After this cv19 farago is over, politics, economics, everything is rebooted and up for grabs.

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk

[Sandydragon]

It's nice there's now a grown up in charge.

If he surrounds himself with the right people, anything is possible. After this cv19 farago is over, politics, economics, everything is rebooted and up for grabs.

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk

Yup. COVID has changed the landscape massively. At the moment Boris is popular and the errors of his government have been largely overlooked. But once we get through this and the elf I’ll scale of the economic damage is known, and then we have Brexit (probably a no deal) we are likely to be in a painful place. Labour might have too much to do to win the next election but they can claw back a lot of seats with sensible leadership and look for the next GE.

[Mellsblue]

Momentum are already on the offensive.

[Sandydragon]

Not surprising. Almost a third of the party voted for Long Bailey so that’s a sizeable minority that Starmer needs to manage.

[Digby]

Momentum are already on the offensive.

If they can be managed well they can be used to virulently attack the Tory party, and even the Lib Dems, over and over and Keir may avoid getting tagged for the worst of it. But as the Tea Party has shown your cretinous rabid attack base isn't above eating their own

[Son of Mathonwy]

Great. He got my vote.

Hopefully he has a detailed plan of action.
Covid 19 will be a very tricky one to deal with (politically). There are a hell of a lot of serious questions to ask and criticisms to make. But he doesn't want the press to paint him as a traitor in his first weeks as leader. Apparently he has accepted an invitation to take part in cross-party talks with the prime minister and the government's top scientific advisers next week, to "work together" on the crisis, which is a two-edged sword if there ever was one.

But he has a great chance to be seen as the serious, grown up leader. Looking across to the other benches that doesn't seem too difficult.

[fivepointer]

Anyone would be an upgrade on Corbyn.

The party have made the right choice. Starmer exudes calm, effective competence. A starting point if you want to be taken seriously as a prospective party of government.

His acceptance speech is really very impressive.

[Galfon]

They know a move to the middle was required for the party to be re-elected, so Long-Bailey would have been bad news.I can see him appealing to Aldi Woman more than Corbyn, but maybe not Workington Man.He does have credentials and post Covid alot of dis-advantageds will be angrilly scraping around in a new Ground 0; it should be an open door to push, but the Party do like a good ruck..

[Digby]

We still don't know where we stand with Brexit, are we going off the cliff with no deal to add to the current fun or will we say there had to be another extension to allow for a deal that isn't happening right now? And if we do have another extension that takes away, for now, the chance of no deal does the Tory party also get stuck into an internal fight all over?

[Stom]

Sir Kier Starmer as the new leader of the Labour Party.

Can he make Labour electable again? Will he purge the left or can he unite the factions?

Is it the left he’ll be purging out the theoretical left?

A return to grass roots Labour might be on the cards, with a sophisticated, educated leader who isn’t shy about his background or credentials

[Sandydragon]

We still don't know where we stand with Brexit, are we going off the cliff with no deal to add to the current fun or will we say there had to be another extension to allow for a deal that isn't happening right now? And if we do have another extension that takes away, for now, the chance of no deal does the Tory party also get stuck into an internal fight all over?

All of the infighting thus far will pale into insignificance if Boris delays Brexit. Many of his MPs and party members want no deal Brexit so the current situation is meaningless beyond an excuse for any problems caused along the way.

Starmer May be well advised to keep his power dry and let the conservatives start fighting each other.

[Sandydragon]

Sir Kier Starmer as the new leader of the Labour Party.

Can he make Labour electable again? Will he purge the left or can he unite the factions?

Is it the left he’ll be purging out the theoretical left?

A return to grass roots Labour might be on the cards, with a sophisticated, educated leader who isn’t shy about his background or credentials

Not sure I understand your first sentence.

I’m hoping that the likes of Momentum and other headbangers who coalesced around Corbyn and his merry gang are sent packing back to the fringe parties they once inhabited. And Labour becomes a serious political force again rather than a student debating room.

[Stom]

Sir Kier Starmer as the new leader of the Labour Party.

Can he make Labour electable again? Will he purge the left or can he unite the factions?

Is it the left he’ll be purging out the theoretical left?

A return to grass roots Labour might be on the cards, with a sophisticated, educated leader who isn’t shy about his background or credentials

Not sure I understand your first sentence.

I’m hoping that the likes of Momentum and other headbangers who coalesced around Corbyn and his merry gang are sent packing back to the fringe parties they once inhabited. And Labour becomes a serious political force again rather than a student debating room.

I mean the difference between Starmer's politics and Corbyns. Corbyn meant well, but his concept of socialism was completely born of "the classroom". Starmer has been out talking to those who suffer the most from right wing ideology his whole life. His socialism is born out of the streets, yet he's a lawyer and educated and...

If he can find the balance between the 2, he'll be quite easily the politician with the broadest support, across all the parties.

I don't think you want to send Momentum to the fringe. You want to keep them close to try and negate their negatives, while using their positives.

Unlike Corbyn, Starmer appears to be a very intelligent man, and he wouldn't have got where he got to - while seemingly holding onto his values - if he let himself get led.

With Rayner as deputy, too, I think there's going to be a very good chance Labour can turn this around quickly.

But, yes, right now the idea is to keep quiet on everything except praising the hell out of the NHS and frontline staff, etc.

[Digby]

We still don't know where we stand with Brexit, are we going off the cliff with no deal to add to the current fun or will we say there had to be another extension to allow for a deal that isn't happening right now? And if we do have another extension that takes away, for now, the chance of no deal does the Tory party also get stuck into an internal fight all over?

All of the infighting thus far will pale into insignificance if Boris delays Brexit. Many of his MPs and party members want no deal Brexit so the current situation is meaningless beyond an excuse for any problems caused along the way.

Starmer May be well advised to keep his power dry and let the conservatives start fighting each other.

And yet on the back of all this could you reasonably cause contract chaos, delays in services, delays at the ports....

He's perhaps stuck with from his point of view two untenable options, and from either my or JRM's point of view one untenable option

[Which Tyler]

But, yes, right now the idea is to keep quiet on everything except praising the hell out of the NHS and frontline staff, etc.

I think there's an excellent chance for Starmer to really make hay by praising the more socialist aspect of current government policy - business rates relief, 80% salary support, potential nationalisation of failing big businesses etc etc...

By praising, and offering cross party support for these initiatives, he can come across as really mature, and a break from the past - if an idea is a good one, then it's a good idea, whoever came up with it - and currently, the government has gone full-on big-government (I personally favour a more devolved big government) - and gone further than pretty much any labour politician would propose under non-emergency conditions. There's an opportunity here for collaborative government rather than adversarial - which can only be a good thing (IMO).
Stand up, support, be the adult in the room; suggest that these are simply good policies, not just emergency measures. Support is high for essential workers - not millionaires and bankers - that can all be leveraged when it comes to the inevitable tax rises.

My big hope (economically) is that the 80% stuff can be used as a jumping off point for universal basic income - which I've really come around to over the last couple of years after my initial knee-jerk rejection - devil's in the details on this one, but if we have 6 months+ of the government essentially engaging in an upscaled version, combined with an extra couple of million on universal credit and a massive increase in work-from-home practicality / acceptability - it must become a way less toxic idea.

[Sandydragon]

I’d live for some of the money from HS2 to be put into helping firms offer staff work from home, or just moving more government workers out of offices. That would be a start.

Perhaps some incentives to companies to allow greater home working and giving up office space could be a useful product in the right direction.

[Banquo]

Good start getting rid of Lavery and Gardiner and getting Reeves in. Thank fck RLB isn't shadow chancellor- hope he gives her nada.

[Mellsblue]

I’ll miss watching Barry tie himself up in knots.

[Digby]

My big hope (economically) is that the 80% stuff can be used as a jumping off point for universal basic income - which I've really come around to over the last couple of years after my initial knee-jerk rejection - devil's in the details on this one, but if we have 6 months+ of the government essentially engaging in an upscaled version, combined with an extra couple of million on universal credit and a massive increase in work-from-home practicality / acceptability - it must become a way less toxic idea.

I'm not wholly averse to UBI, in principle I rather like the idea in a world of increasing automation, but in practice nobody has a good idea how to present it and make it work, yet. And the follow on problem is we're certainly looking at a spend/cost of over £300 billion from just 1 round of covid, it could easily go much higher, so building in additional social costs is going to be painful even if the jump off point is 2ft off the ground

[Sandydragon]

My big hope (economically) is that the 80% stuff can be used as a jumping off point for universal basic income - which I've really come around to over the last couple of years after my initial knee-jerk rejection - devil's in the details on this one, but if we have 6 months+ of the government essentially engaging in an upscaled version, combined with an extra couple of million on universal credit and a massive increase in work-from-home practicality / acceptability - it must become a way less toxic idea.

I'm not wholly averse to UBI, in principle I rather like the idea in a world of increasing automation, but in practice nobody has a good idea how to present it and make it work, yet. And the follow on problem is we're certainly looking at a spend/cost of over £300 billion from just 1 round of covid, it could easily go much higher, so building in additional social costs is going to be painful even if the jump off point is 2ft off the ground

Me neither. If there is a way to make it work then I can see the benefits in a world where automation is going to be such an issue.

The biggest concerns for me are affordability and inflation.

[Stom]

Well, any UBI would surely have to be linked to higher corporation tax and fewer handouts for established businesses.

But I’d be looking for ways to promote small and local businesses first.

[Which Tyler]

Depending on what you want it to cover, UBI would be a relatively easy morph from the current income support programmes and universal credit.
And yes, paid for by closing tax loopholes; actually getting fair tax income from the likes of Amazon and Google (and Jacob Rees Mogg); increasing tax on the top earners - ideally by adding another bracket (TBH, I do'nt see why we can't move much closer to a sliding scale on income tax - why just the 3 brackets?) Oh, and UBI would see the end to the personal allowance at the "poor" end of the income scale, as everyone is getting enough to live.

Personally, I'd want UBI to be set low, and with local fluctuations.
Enough to cover housing costs, utilities, basic sanitation and basic level feeding.
A group of nutritionists can get together, and build a "weekly shopping cart for 1" - to include basic sanitary products; that UBI will cover; and then take the average cost over 3 supermarkets for that.
Local authorities can easily get data on average cost of housing (which would be the most dependant on location). You then look at what percentage of the median average is covered.
Same for utilities.

Maths is reworked every year.

Each household gets that based on the number of people in the household (some categories would need less or more, such as disabled, differently aged kids etc). With increased automation and fewer jobs available, this may need to become more generous.
If you also want a car, or an iPhone, or £100 a month sports TV package, a week in Lanzarote - then work.

It CAN be pretty simple; it CAN be unworkably complicated


Getting a little off topic here though - my underlying point was that Starmer could "use" this to normalise some ideas of big government, to support the conservatives when they do good things, whilst holding them account for cock-ups "You say we have plenty of PPE - why is it not reaching the frontline" etc. He'll ned to largely keep his powder dry, especially on the usual petty party political stuff; but there's still plenty he can do beyond "support the NHS, and otherwise keep out of it"