Summer Test Series vs Argentina

[Mikey Brown]

Well now that the 6 nations is done and dusted with another underwhelming 4th/5th place finish, time to look forward to 3 tests vs Argentina. If we can establish a bit of depth and give all the Lions players a rest (plus a couple who have struggled with injury/fitness) then I think next years 6 nations we'll definitely be turning that corner. There's the small issue of whether or not our coaches really know what they're doing, but I'm sure that will work itself out.

As always I'm completely reserving the right to do a u-turn on all of these decisions, inevitably forgetting a number of players and of course having no clue what form any of them will be in 3 months time.

Similarly with the props I don't have much insight in to some of these guys, but we are incredibly limited for options. For instance McCallum and Rae appear to be getting a good few starts for Worcester and Bath at the moment, but no idea if they're actually playing well. Is Berghan still up to it? Was Sebastian ever up to it? Give Kebble another go at tight-head and drag Dell along? Nel looks absolutely fucked for all but a couple of cameos a season.

Prop (6)
McCallum, Bhatti, Kebble, Rae, Sebastian, Berghan

Hooker (3)
Ashman, McInally, Brown

Give Turner a rest and see if Brown really has anything left in the tank beyond daft penalties.

Lock (5)
Cummings, Skinner, Hodgson, Sykes, Young

I just can't handle seeing Gilchrist in the team anymore and Gray needs a proper rest.

Backrow (7)
Ritchie (c), Christie, Bayliss, Darge, Muncaster, Fagerson, Bradbury

Halfback (5)
White, Dobie, Horne or Vellacott, Hastings, Thomson

Not really sold on any of the 9s but Dobie is definitely worth involving for the future. Clearly we're taking this Kinghorn at 10 thing seriously so might as well have a proper look, but we already look short at fullback so I stuck him there. If Smith is a realistic option to start at 15 by then that would be great.

Centre (5)
Redpath, Johnson, Hutchinson, Bennett, Jones

Back Three (5)
Graham, McLean, Steyn, Kinghorn, Smith

Who/what have I missed? Will Dempsey be qualified? Is McDowall even close to the Warriors 23? I don't understand what happened to the promising player of 2-3 years ago.

[Scottish Caley Fan]

After tonight I'd say Connor Boyle is a serious contender .

And you've missed Kyle Rowe: I reckon he'll get a shot seeing as he hasn't had any game time this 6N despite being in the original squad.

Oh and there is the newly eligibility rule which may get utilised lol

[Big D]

I'd be speaking ti Dingwall to see if he feels Scottish again. He's been good this year.

Dempsey doesn't qualify until October.

Schoeman should be on tour, Sutherland too if fit. He's has a break through injuries this year.

[General Zod]

I can think of 5 or 6 who won’t be going.

[switchskier]

One year out from a world cup feels like a time to rest certainties, start players who are on the bubble and look at a few possible flyers. So id definitely be trying to tempt Dingwall but if not I'd want Scott instead of Johnson who we know will be in the squad but I don't think is currently playing better than the former is for Leicester.

Could be worth having a look at Hunter-Hill in the second row, giving Skinner the summer off and whatever happened to Richardson? Got to be worth another look.

Agree Boyle should go, after this 6N I want Ritchie wrapped up in cotton wool.

[Mikey Brown]

Dingwall is a good shout if he's up for it. Doesn't seem like he's particularly on the England radar at the moment. Not really seen enough of Boyle or Rowe. I know Rowe had a very good patch of try-scoring recently but not sure beyond that.

I understand the temptation to rest Ritchie. I suppose it depends how his recovery goes, but if we want someone else to come in and lead the side he'd be the first name on my list. I guess Gilchrist is another solid option, and we do seem to be lacking leaders, he's just such a plodder. If that's the cost of giving Gray and Skinner a proper rest then fair enough.

I'm curious what Hunter-Hill offers. Don't ever really notice him much apart from the fact he's tall, but Sarries' confidence in him does make me question whether we're missing out on something.

Any advances at prop? I left Schoeman out as it feels like he's played a lot, absolutely proven himself, and we need some depth beyond that particularly with Sutherland injured (and looking a bit jaded post-Lions) but he would certainly make it a stronger side.

[Cameo]

Can't be bothered starting a new thread but just saw this stat in TOL:

Townsend has:

- beaten England 3 times out 5 with one draw
- beaten France 4 times out of seven
- beaten Australia 3 times out of three
BUT
- beaten Wales or Ireland 1 time out of 13.

First reaction is quite how rugby has changed. But there has to be something we learn from that about styles we struggle with (not that Wales and Ireland are similar) or mentality against players we are more familiar with. It's not simply a question of struggling against big powerful sides (England and France are normally just that).

[whatisthejava]

With RG tour, we need to find leaders in the pack, Cummings , Gilchrist , Richie all need exposure to captaincy

[Mikey Brown]

Is Cummings thought to be that sort of player?

[septic 9]

With RG tour, we need to find leaders in the pack, Cummings , Gilchrist , Richie all need exposure to captaincy

Gilchrist is 31. He has captained Edinburgh a lot. And captained Scotland - IIRC he was Cotter's preferred captain until injury. Recent times he has been Scotland vice captain and in the leadership every time he plays. He doesn't need exposure to captaincy. If you want an experienced hand to captain a mainly development squad, fine. Otherwise time to move on from a player who should be struggling for a place in a 23 when everyone else is fit.

Cumming shas captained Glasgow a few times methinks, and certainly taken over when the captain goes off - as I believe he did last week against Edinburgh. And was seen speaking to the ref.

Richie is the heir apparent. I think he has captained at every age group but not at senior level; although like Gilchrist he is a current Scotland VC and in the leadership group. If he tours he is a total no brainer. Given he sat out most of the 6N, he will be rested. and Captaining a squad with no Hogg there is a perfect opportunity to move on.

So there we have it. Richie. Only problem being he isn't likely yo be fit to tour apparently

[Mikey Brown]

Aha. Yes him not actually being on the tour is a considerable spanner in the works. It would be a real shame not to see Ritchie get a runout as captain though, sadly Gilchrist may be considered next in line but I like the idea of Cummings being given a shot. It was great seeing him come through with all his energy and aggression, but he seems to have slipped down the pecking order considerably and I don't know how much that's just to do with injuries or not.

I'm never sure when a rest period forced through injury really counts as a rest anyway. For instance Sutherland may be fit by that point, but rehab/recovery is not going to be the same as getting a summer off either mentally or physically. Same with Redpath who I'm feeling is going to be a persistent injury worry.

[Big D]

Can't be bothered starting a new thread but just saw this stat in TOL:

Townsend has:

- beaten England 3 times out 5 with one draw
- beaten France 4 times out of seven
- beaten Australia 3 times out of three
BUT
- beaten Wales or Ireland 1 time out of 13.

First reaction is quite how rugby has changed. But there has to be something we learn from that about styles we struggle with (not that Wales and Ireland are similar) or mentality against players we are more familiar with. It's not simply a question of struggling against big powerful sides (England and France are normally just that).

Telling too that in the last two years we have beaten England and immediately the following week lost to Wales. Wales have been beatable in those games. They should have been buried before half time in 2021.

[Cameo]

Yeah, the Wales ones are so frustrating as we really se to have their number for spells. Having said that, I reckon a lot of teams have thought that for much of the last 20 years but somehow they have kept winning. Must be turning now though.

[Scottish Caley Fan]

[Big D]

Some of those would have to be absolutely mental to make themselves available this early in their career. But I get that it is wishful thinking from TTRP.

Of those not capped on that list, Chapman and Dingwall are probably most likely to be convinced. Although Dingwall may still fancy his chances on getting into the England summer tour. Hutchinson becomes EQ again in time for the second half of next years 6 nations too. Not that I anticipate that being an issue.

Smith is 18. Why would he throw away another year at England U20s and another contract as an EQ 10 for a cap in a summer tour?
Roebuck may be Scots born but he is educated down south and been part of the age grade set up.
Arundell will fancy breaking into the England back 3 once Eddie Jones fucks off. Give it a year or two and he might be Wales' best option too.
Is Stevenson even SQ?

[Croft_No.5]

You also have to bear in mind the EP rules on EQP in matchday squads will be 15 from next season. Folk that are dual qualified will not make a commitment to Scotland, get tied and then struggle to get game-time.

[septic 9]

You also have to bear in mind the EP rules on EQP in matchday squads will be 15 from next season. Folk that are dual qualified will not make a commitment to Scotland, get tied and then struggle to get game-time.

increasing the EQ in match day 23s does make it tougher, but how much is another matter. The non commitment until capped has been the norm for many seasons, it means they get to play more and keep a job for many. Once capped the pressure is twofold - being non EQ and probably meriting an automatic pay increase.
The likes of Ashman were always going to declare as Scottish and are very much exceptions.

At least one of the others on that short list is definitely favouring Scotland but cannot say so in public

[Mikey Brown]

On the subject of Ashman he seems to fully own the Sale 2 shirt ahead of Akker Van see Merwe and Tommy Taylor, who are very useful options in their own right.

[Cameo]

On the subject of Ashman he seems to fully own the Sale 2 shirt ahead of Akker Van see Merwe and Tommy Taylor, who are very useful options in their own right.

That's good. Am I right that at the beginning of the season he was firmly third choice?

[Big D]

With the Chile game apparently going to be an A game in June, we could have some fun with the XV.
McCallum
Cherry - probably too old for this type of game but still feel he deserves recognition. I'd have Ashman in the 23 for Argentina.w
Walker
Sykes
Hodgson
Bayliss
Boyle
Muncaster
Dobie
Thomson
McLean
McDowell
Currie
Rowe
Smith

[Mikey Brown]

On the subject of Ashman he seems to fully own the Sale 2 shirt ahead of Akker Van see Merwe and Tommy Taylor, who are very useful options in their own right.

That's good. Am I right that at the beginning of the season he was firmly third choice?

They seemed to rotate a fair bit, but it seems Ashman is starting more and more at the business end of the season for Sale, which is great to see.

[Mikey Brown]

On the subject of Ashman he seems to fully own the Sale 2 shirt ahead of Akker Van see Merwe and Tommy Taylor, who are very useful options in their own right.

That's good. Am I right that at the beginning of the season he was firmly third choice?

They seemed to rotate a fair bit, but it seems Ashman is starting more and more at the business end of the season for Sale, which is great to see.

Well now I’ve said that he’s on the bench for the Euro game this weekend. Gray, Skinner and Hogg start for Exeter. Jones plays at fullback again for Quins which I’m very interested to see as he looked pretty solid last week, but Montpellier will surely test him far more.

Just realised this is the wrong thread for all that, but maybe it might mean room for both Bennet and Jones if he continues to get time there?

[septic 9]

That's good. Am I right that at the beginning of the season he was firmly third choice?

They seemed to rotate a fair bit, but it seems Ashman is starting more and more at the business end of the season for Sale, which is great to see.

Well now I’ve said that he’s on the bench for the Euro game this weekend. Gray, Skinner and Hogg start for Exeter. Jones plays at fullback again for Quins which I’m very interested to see as he looked pretty solid last week, but Montpellier will surely test him far more.

Just realised this is the wrong thread for all that, but maybe it might mean room for both Bennet and Jones if he continues to get time there?

well that suggests that Sale's lineout is fucked this week. Akker VDM couldn't hit a barn if he was standing inside it with the doors shut

Incidentally, looking forward to reduced allaowable numbers of nEQ in Eng teams next season, Sale have had a problem for a few seasons now, sometimes playing academy players in such numbers as to basically write off games and get their average up. Next year it is each match day squad must have at least 15 EQ. This week Sale have 9 SA starters, another 2 plus a Scot on the bench

[Big D]

Squad announced tomorrow.

Some interesting rumours around Smith, Roebuck and Chapman.

[Big D]

Russell and Hogg left out and nothing left field really. Worried about the amount of games the Lions will have played through to the RWC.