England vs Argentina

[Puja]

What time's the team named?


ETA. Ah, there it is:

15. Freddie Steward

14. Jack Nowell (VC)

13. Manu Tuilagi

12. Owen Farrell (C)

11. Joe Cokanasiga

10. Marcus Smith

9. Ben Youngs

1. Ellis Genge (VC)

2. Luke Cowan-Dickie

3. Kyle Sinckler

4. Alex Coles

5. Jonny Hill

6. Maro Itoje

7. Tom Curry

8. Billy Vunipola

Finishers

16. Jack Singleton

17. Mako Vunipola

18. Joe Heyes

19. David Ribbans

20. Sam Simmonds

21. Jack Willis

22. Jack van Poortlviet

23. Henry Slade



Puja

[Mellsblue]

Farrell as capt
Slow backline
A lock at 6
Youngs at 9
and a 6:2 bench

Where’s my safe space.

[Margin_Walker]

They will probably pull a performance out of the bag, but boy, that's a one paced team/23.

[Puja]

A few things to unpack there. Farrell as captain again is the big one, shortly after Eddie made a public statement about how talking to referees was so important and how that possibly wasn't Faz's strength. Oh, Eddie, you loveable rogue/absolute fucker, you've done it again.

Itoje at 6, well done to I think it was Banquo who eeyored that into existence. Coles at 4, which is interesting. I wonder if they're going to do as Lawtoje did and have Coles pack on the flank at scrums for Itoje's strength in the second row (which of course begs the question of why not just number them the other way around)?

6:2 bench. I'm hoping that's May having failed a fitness test, rather than a deliberate decision to remove one of the few bits of backline pace that we had available. Not sure about Sinckler over Heyes, but it's not something I'm too het up about. Fuming that JWillis is somehow on the bench.

Could be worse, although not by a great deal.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

It’s been quite the decade of major disasters:
Global pandemic
War in Europe
Eddie Jones trolling Rugby Rebels emb.

[Mikey Brown]

Lawes goes off and Curry is captain. Lawes unavailable and Curry drops behind Farrel, Nowell (!?) and Genge?

A winger in any sort of leadership position makes me sick to my stomach. Get rid of Eddie now. Enough is enough.

[Peej]

A few things to unpack there. Farrell as captain again is the big one, shortly after Eddie made a public statement about how talking to referees was so important and how that possibly wasn't Faz's strength. Oh, Eddie, you loveable rogue/absolute fucker, you've done it again.

Itoje at 6, well done to I think it was Banquo who eeyored that into existence. Coles at 4, which is interesting. I wonder if they're going to do as Lawtoje did and have Coles pack on the flank at scrums for Itoje's strength in the second row (which of course begs the question of why not just number them the other way around)?

6:2 bench. I'm hoping that's May having failed a fitness test, rather than a deliberate decision to remove one of the few bits of backline pace that we had available. Not sure about Sinckler over Heyes, but it's not something I'm too het up about. Fuming that JWillis is somehow on the bench.

Could be worse, although not by a great deal.

Puja

Belay that, it was I. I warned you this would happen. I warned you thusly. I hate being right.

[TheNomad]

I can make some sort of peace with the forward, if we pretend Willis doesn't exist....

But the backs!

Why? Where do you start. So slow. So lacking in complementary skills

[Puja]

A few things to unpack there. Farrell as captain again is the big one, shortly after Eddie made a public statement about how talking to referees was so important and how that possibly wasn't Faz's strength. Oh, Eddie, you loveable rogue/absolute fucker, you've done it again.

Itoje at 6, well done to I think it was Banquo who eeyored that into existence. Coles at 4, which is interesting. I wonder if they're going to do as Lawtoje did and have Coles pack on the flank at scrums for Itoje's strength in the second row (which of course begs the question of why not just number them the other way around)?

6:2 bench. I'm hoping that's May having failed a fitness test, rather than a deliberate decision to remove one of the few bits of backline pace that we had available. Not sure about Sinckler over Heyes, but it's not something I'm too het up about. Fuming that JWillis is somehow on the bench.

Could be worse, although not by a great deal.

Puja

Belay that, it was I. I warned you this would happen. I warned you thusly. I hate being right.

People have been banned for less.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Nowell or Coka - acceptable. Both, though - ugh!

In terms of units, the only one I like is the front row. That 23 is not the best available, it's that straighforward.

[Peej]

The joy of making an accurate call but being devastated by the reality of what it means is quite something

[Timbo]

This recharacterisation of Cokanasiga as a slow international winger is….bizarre.

[FKAS]

I can make some sort of peace with the forward, if we pretend Willis doesn't exist....

But the backs!

Why? Where do you start. So slow. So lacking in complementary skills

It is slow. Complimentary skills wise, one of the issues highlighted previously in the England attack was the lack of options to hold the opposition defence. Ford suffered with it when given the Farrell/Slade partnership and Smith struggled in the later half of the 6N. It looked a little better in the summer but now Eddie has stacked the backline with players that can carry through contact (bar Farrell) for Smith to choose from. Just a shame that there isn't a rapid wing in place of Nowell. If Smith can manipulate a one on one on the outside for Cokanasiga though it should work.

Good distribution skills at 10/12 and reliable distribution at 15. Same with the kicking. Defensively should be ok bar the significant lack of pace. Really we're just lack a bit of X factor in there somewhere.

[Puja]

This recharacterisation of Cokanasiga as a slow international winger is….bizarre.

He's not *fast* though, is he? He's an acceptable speed for an international winger - he's not Nowell - but he's also not someone who's going to be making an outside break through use of his pace. Same as Steward - fast enough that it's not a problem, but not fast enough that it's an attacking weapon of his.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

He was definitely capable of that in those clips from a few years back, I just don't know if he still has that? I figured injuries had started to take their toll already, but maybe we just haven't seen him 100% fit in a long time. I figured his top end was still good, but hasn't looked quite as explosive off the mark? Feels like Smith is the only other player with any decent acceleration.

[fivepointer]

Pleased for Coles. Ribbans at last gets a look in. Willis is back. And thats as much as i can enthused about.

Argentina have picked a side with plenty of know how and plenty of quality. I think we're in for a tough game.

[Peej]

The Argentina team:

Argentina: 15 Juan Cruz Mallia, 14 Mateo Carreras, 13 Matias Moroni, 12 Jeronimo de la Fuente, 11 Emiliano Boffelli, 10 Santiago Carreras, 9 Gonzalo Bertranou, 8 Pablo Matera, 7 Marcos Kremer, 6 Juan Martín González, 5 Tomás Lavanini, 4 Matías Alemanno, 3 Francisco Gómez Kodela, 2 Julián Montoya (c), 1 Thomas Gallo
Replacements: 16 Ignacio Ruiz, 17 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 18 Eduardo Bello, 19 Lucas Paulos, 20 Facundo Isa, 21 Eliseo Morales, 22 Tomás Albornoz, 23 Matías Orlando

[Mikey Brown]

I will never stop finding that 12s name funny. Just incredible.

[FKAS]

Well the chances of that Puma side playing the full game with 15 on the pitch is fairly low.

It's a physical pack but discipline could be an issue. Back line is skillful and rapid but you'd expect England to have a physical dominance there if they defend well.

[FKAS]

I will never stop finding that 12s name funny. Just incredible.

Great name, great player.

[p/d]

I thought the last time would be, so I’m not that hopeful this will be the last time we see Cokanasiga start

6/2 split was completely predictable. Captaincy couldn’t care less, this role has been degraded so much it is almost irrelevant.

Just hope the Pumas turn up and make every single one of the ‘not necessarily best players but members of the best side’ work their butts off for 80mins

[Which Tyler]

He's not *fast* though, is he? He's an acceptable speed for an international winger - he's not Nowell - but he's also not someone who's going to be making an outside break through use of his pace. Same as Steward - fast enough that it's not a problem, but not fast enough that it's an attacking weapon of his.

I'd say that was fair. Before injury he was probably quicker than average for an international winger, but not to the point of a May or LRZ; now he's probably about average for an international winger - when he trusts his body not to break.

But he's picked up this reputation for being properly slow, and borderline dyspraxic (on some sites)

[Peej]

Well the chances of that Puma side playing the full game with 15 on the pitch is fairly low.

It's a physical pack but discipline could be an issue. Back line is skillful and rapid but you'd expect England to have a physical dominance there if they defend well.

My thoughts exactly. With it being their first game of the tour I think they will be a little off the pace, and if England can get in the game early and ahead then Argentina don't tend to chase games well. But that backrow of the Pumas is real quality.

[Banquo]

Itoje at 6, well done to I think it was Banquo who eeyored that into existence. Coles at 4, which is interesting. I wonder if they're going to do as Lawtoje did and have Coles pack on the flank at scrums for Itoje's strength in the second row (which of course begs the question of why not just number them the other way around)?



Puja

I'd hope that's right. Though I do think its better for Coles to be starting at lock intly, putting Itoje at 6 sucks for me, and Ribbans should be a bit miffed , as he is a better lock than Coles.

[Banquo]

This recharacterisation of Cokanasiga as a slow international winger is….bizarre.

actually, where has that been said directly? But it is a slow back line by intl standards.