Do we have the players?

[MrK]

Halfpennys performance yesterday was solid, but not spectacular, Owens the same, there are a number of players either not selected or injured that really have to come into the conversation for the WC squad

I dont buy in to the fact we dont have the players, we have a limited pool to pick from admittedly, but there are undoubtedly options out there

Nicky Smith has to come back into the WC Squad and arguably Domachowski
Lake and Elias similarly for the hookers spot
On the tight head, I dont think we have anyone better than what we have
Second row is an interesting one with the new ruling - Rowlands has been hugely missed, can Ball and or Hill still offer something, Seb Davies has had a strong season for Cardiff, is giving away less penalties and can at least carry, AWJ has been a tremendous player and leader, but he's done and shouldnt be anywhere near the WC squad
Back row is a question of balance - but we have "test match animals" that could come in - Moriaty and Navidi, we also have players like Basham and Botham who warrant another look if the form is there.

Im a fan of Tomos, but even I have to admit hes been "erratic" however he needs to be one of the 3 we take, Blacker and Davies could easily make the squad - really is perm any 3 from 5
As with AWJ, Biggar needs to be confined to the history books of great players, but shouldnt be on the plane - we arent exactly blessed with 10s, but, we have to move on, the 10s should come from Evans, Sheedy, Anscombe, O WIlliams, Patchell
At centre again its a how do you want to play, Hawkins has done ok, Grady looked ok yesterday, and they could be the partnership we persevere with - J WIlliams, K Williams, Tomkins, Halaholo all have skillsets we could do with at the moment but depends on the type of game you want, there is also LLewelyn to consider and Joe Roberts "has looked" impressive.
Back 3 has been poor for us with Adams, Liam, Dyer and even LRZ yesterday all having a mixed bag. Im sure with Adams and Liam its a temporary form thing, they are too good for this to be a permanent malaise. Halfpenny was solid yesterday, but he isnt the answer at FB, maybe we go back to LRZ, maybe we look at McNicol again, on the wings, I dont know what we have coming through, for his own health Im not going to mention North as I really dont think he should be playing anymore, is Conbeer an answer? can Regan Grace be a wildcard?

We dont have legions to call on, but we have enough to pick a strong, balanced squad...we just have to hope we have the coaching team to see it

[morepork]

Gatland is such an insufferable dry balls of a coach it probably wouldn't matter who was picked. He only has one template.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Gatland is such an insufferable dry balls of a coach it probably wouldn't matter who was picked. He only has one template.

Yup.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Halfpennys performance yesterday was solid, but not spectacular, Owens the same, there are a number of players either not selected or injured that really have to come into the conversation for the WC squad

I dont buy in to the fact we dont have the players, we have a limited pool to pick from admittedly, but there are undoubtedly options out there

Nicky Smith has to come back into the WC Squad and arguably Domachowski
Lake and Elias similarly for the hookers spot
On the tight head, I dont think we have anyone better than what we have
Second row is an interesting one with the new ruling - Rowlands has been hugely missed, can Ball and or Hill still offer something, Seb Davies has had a strong season for Cardiff, is giving away less penalties and can at least carry, AWJ has been a tremendous player and leader, but he's done and shouldnt be anywhere near the WC squad
Back row is a question of balance - but we have "test match animals" that could come in - Moriaty and Navidi, we also have players like Basham and Botham who warrant another look if the form is there.

Im a fan of Tomos, but even I have to admit hes been "erratic" however he needs to be one of the 3 we take, Blacker and Davies could easily make the squad - really is perm any 3 from 5
As with AWJ, Biggar needs to be confined to the history books of great players, but shouldnt be on the plane - we arent exactly blessed with 10s, but, we have to move on, the 10s should come from Evans, Sheedy, Anscombe, O WIlliams, Patchell
At centre again its a how do you want to play, Hawkins has done ok, Grady looked ok yesterday, and they could be the partnership we persevere with - J WIlliams, K Williams, Tomkins, Halaholo all have skillsets we could do with at the moment but depends on the type of game you want, there is also LLewelyn to consider and Joe Roberts "has looked" impressive.
Back 3 has been poor for us with Adams, Liam, Dyer and even LRZ yesterday all having a mixed bag. Im sure with Adams and Liam its a temporary form thing, they are too good for this to be a permanent malaise. Halfpenny was solid yesterday, but he isnt the answer at FB, maybe we go back to LRZ, maybe we look at McNicol again, on the wings, I dont know what we have coming through, for his own health Im not going to mention North as I really dont think he should be playing anymore, is Conbeer an answer? can Regan Grace be a wildcard?

We dont have legions to call on, but we have enough to pick a strong, balanced squad...we just have to hope we have the coaching team to see it

Yeah, I agree with much if that. I think we have enough talented players although most of them suffer from having been 'developed' in Wales and playing under different systems at each of the regions.

To be honest, some of the issues we're getting may be because there's too much choice (eg it seems ridiculous that Basham can't even make the squad) - we're not forced to play a certain player there and so nothing gets settled (particularly at 7, 9 and 12).

Not sure if any of those others is quite at Rowland's standard but there's a fair choice of quality replacements for him and AWJ. It'll be interesting to see if Navidi slot straight back in when he's fit. I would still have McNicholl in the squad, however I think this will not happen, just as Giles and Conbeer won't get a look in.

For the upcoming players I think in several cases we've rushed them in before they've actually proved themselves (or fully developed) at club level and conversely ignored others who are playing at a high level for their club (although I guess we all have our personal favourites . . . and I know from experience mine rarely line up with Gatland's!).

[Spiffy]

Gatland is such an insufferable dry balls of a coach it probably wouldn't matter who was picked. He only has one template.

I couldn't believe it when the WRFU re-appointed him a few weeks ago. Significant step backwards. An unimaginative coach who did nothing in NZ and screwed up the last Lions tour.

[Sandydragon]

Gatland is such an insufferable dry balls of a coach it probably wouldn't matter who was picked. He only has one template.

I couldn't believe it when the WRFU re-appointed him a few weeks ago. Significant step backwards. An unimaginative coach who did nothing in NZ and screwed up the last Lions tour.

But the most success Welsh coach since the 1970s. The benefit of bringing Gatland back is that it’s exposed the rot. Easy to blame Privac for everything (and his constant changing of selection and general tactical muddle wasn’t helping). But with Gatland back it’s very clear that something is badly wrong and suddenly the paper has been removed from the cracks.

[Sandydragon]

Halfpennys performance yesterday was solid, but not spectacular, Owens the same, there are a number of players either not selected or injured that really have to come into the conversation for the WC squad

I dont buy in to the fact we dont have the players, we have a limited pool to pick from admittedly, but there are undoubtedly options out there

Nicky Smith has to come back into the WC Squad and arguably Domachowski
Lake and Elias similarly for the hookers spot
On the tight head, I dont think we have anyone better than what we have
Second row is an interesting one with the new ruling - Rowlands has been hugely missed, can Ball and or Hill still offer something, Seb Davies has had a strong season for Cardiff, is giving away less penalties and can at least carry, AWJ has been a tremendous player and leader, but he's done and shouldnt be anywhere near the WC squad
Back row is a question of balance - but we have "test match animals" that could come in - Moriaty and Navidi, we also have players like Basham and Botham who warrant another look if the form is there.

Im a fan of Tomos, but even I have to admit hes been "erratic" however he needs to be one of the 3 we take, Blacker and Davies could easily make the squad - really is perm any 3 from 5
As with AWJ, Biggar needs to be confined to the history books of great players, but shouldnt be on the plane - we arent exactly blessed with 10s, but, we have to move on, the 10s should come from Evans, Sheedy, Anscombe, O WIlliams, Patchell
At centre again its a how do you want to play, Hawkins has done ok, Grady looked ok yesterday, and they could be the partnership we persevere with - J WIlliams, K Williams, Tomkins, Halaholo all have skillsets we could do with at the moment but depends on the type of game you want, there is also LLewelyn to consider and Joe Roberts "has looked" impressive.
Back 3 has been poor for us with Adams, Liam, Dyer and even LRZ yesterday all having a mixed bag. Im sure with Adams and Liam its a temporary form thing, they are too good for this to be a permanent malaise. Halfpenny was solid yesterday, but he isnt the answer at FB, maybe we go back to LRZ, maybe we look at McNicol again, on the wings, I dont know what we have coming through, for his own health Im not going to mention North as I really dont think he should be playing anymore, is Conbeer an answer? can Regan Grace be a wildcard?

We dont have legions to call on, but we have enough to pick a strong, balanced squad...we just have to hope we have the coaching team to see it

I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom. There are promising younger players coming through and they need experience. We also need a game plan that preferably the regions also buy into so we have a Welsh way. Japan aren’t blessed with powerful forwards but don’t struggle to generate momentum. Why can’t we do the same? I’m not suggesting a full return to the harum scarum tactics of 2005, but if we can’t use strength then let’s use guile.

11. LRZ, 12. Hawkins 13. Grady 14. Grace 15. Adams has plenty of potential to unlock defences and there’s good players I’ve not considered there. But we need some halfbacks who can get that back like moving and some means to generate momentum at ruck time. If we can’t rely on one player like Navidi then as a team we need to do rucking better.

[morepork]

Gatland is such an insufferable dry balls of a coach it probably wouldn't matter who was picked. He only has one template.

I couldn't believe it when the WRFU re-appointed him a few weeks ago. Significant step backwards. An unimaginative coach who did nothing in NZ and screwed up the last Lions tour.

But the most success Welsh coach since the 1970s. The benefit of bringing Gatland back is that it’s exposed the rot. Easy to blame Privac for everything (and his constant changing of selection and general tactical muddle wasn’t helping). But with Gatland back it’s very clear that something is badly wrong and suddenly the paper has been removed from the cracks.

Don't care. He is dull, low risk, cynically negative rugby. Any coach having to deprogram your Moonies after how ever many years of the mantra of Wawwen is up against it from the start. He nearly broke the Chiefs in NZ in less than a year in charge.

[Sandydragon]

I couldn't believe it when the WRFU re-appointed him a few weeks ago. Significant step backwards. An unimaginative coach who did nothing in NZ and screwed up the last Lions tour.

But the most success Welsh coach since the 1970s. The benefit of bringing Gatland back is that it’s exposed the rot. Easy to blame Privac for everything (and his constant changing of selection and general tactical muddle wasn’t helping). But with Gatland back it’s very clear that something is badly wrong and suddenly the paper has been removed from the cracks.

Don't care. He is dull, low risk, cynically negative rugby. Any coach having to deprogram your Moonies after how ever many years of the mantra of Wawwen is up against it from the start. He nearly broke the Chiefs in NZ in less than a year in charge.

Think you missed the point I was making.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I dont buy in to the fact we dont have the players, we have a limited pool to pick from admittedly, but there are undoubtedly options out there

Giving it further thought, I don't think this is the issue at all.

We're in a crisis on the pitch right now because we're playing even worse than the worst of 2022. We're not even getting close to these teams whereas most of Pivac's losses were close ones.

Gatland came into the job saying not enough players had been developed under Pivac. That was just him getting his excuses in early. Gatland is pulling his usual mind games, but on us and the media this time. Don't believe it.

We do not need to overhaul the Wales squad. We are months away from the world cup. Who cares how old our players are right now - that's a problem for 2024. We do not need to bring in young players just because they're young, not if they need a lot of developing. We just need to get our best team together from players who are already developed. If our performances have suddenly fallen off a cliff, it's because of the coaching - that's the thing that's changed.

[Sandydragon]

I dont buy in to the fact we dont have the players, we have a limited pool to pick from admittedly, but there are undoubtedly options out there

Giving it further thought, I don't think this is the issue at all.

We're in a crisis on the pitch right now because we're playing even worse than the worst of 2022. We're not even getting close to these teams whereas most of Pivac's losses were close ones.

Gatland came into the job saying not enough players had been developed under Pivac. That was just him getting his excuses in early. Gatland is pulling his usual mind games, but on us and the media this time. Don't believe it.

We do not need to overhaul the Wales squad. We are months away from the world cup. Who cares how old our players are right now - that's a problem for 2024. We do not need to bring in young players just because they're young, not if they need a lot of developing. We just need to get our best team together from players who are already developed. If our performances have suddenly fallen off a cliff, it's because of the coaching - that's the thing that's changed.

If coaching has fallen off a cliff, then it happened last year. We were dire last six nations, close losses (mostly) yes but dire. I agree we therew away the Italian game and could have won that with a 4 try BP. But the AIs were appalling. We lost to Australia seconds at home. We lost to Georgia at home. We somehow managed to edge past Argentina. Some of our best attacking play came against Australia in that last game but then it all went to pieces. This hasn't suddenly gone awry with the arrival of Gatland, its been falling part for a while.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Halfpenny is finished folks.... time to move on from him, North etc

[Son of Mathonwy]

I dont buy in to the fact we dont have the players, we have a limited pool to pick from admittedly, but there are undoubtedly options out there

Giving it further thought, I don't think this is the issue at all.

We're in a crisis on the pitch right now because we're playing even worse than the worst of 2022. We're not even getting close to these teams whereas most of Pivac's losses were close ones.

Gatland came into the job saying not enough players had been developed under Pivac. That was just him getting his excuses in early. Gatland is pulling his usual mind games, but on us and the media this time. Don't believe it.

We do not need to overhaul the Wales squad. We are months away from the world cup. Who cares how old our players are right now - that's a problem for 2024. We do not need to bring in young players just because they're young, not if they need a lot of developing. We just need to get our best team together from players who are already developed. If our performances have suddenly fallen off a cliff, it's because of the coaching - that's the thing that's changed.

If coaching has fallen off a cliff, then it happened last year. We were dire last six nations, close losses (mostly) yes but dire. I agree we therew away the Italian game and could have won that with a 4 try BP. But the AIs were appalling. We lost to Australia seconds at home. We lost to Georgia at home. We somehow managed to edge past Argentina. Some of our best attacking play came against Australia in that last game but then it all went to pieces. This hasn't suddenly gone awry with the arrival of Gatland, its been falling part for a while.

If we were dire in last year's 6N we need a new word to describe this year's.

2022 was massively inconsistent. We beat to Boks in South Africa. We got our usual trouncing from NZ. Argentina was a decent win. Georgia was a disaster. And Australia was the whole year in microcosm - fantastic in places, awful in other places - but we scored 4 tries and 34 points - can you imagine us doing that now (even though we have basically the same players)?

Hopefully Gatland's coaching team will start to get the team playing effectively soon. Hopefully there is something more to the success of the Gatland years than Shaun Edwards. We shall see. But there is no special crisis caused by the age of the players - we just have a mix of ages and some older ones will drop out, replaced by younger ones - as happens every year.