Team v Les Bleus

[Tuco Ramirez]

I thought we wee were flattered by the scoreboard v Italy, our backs looked pedestrian from phase play. Really worrying. Some unforced errors too and tbh thought Jac Morgan was quiet. Our backs worry me though. No composure.

[MrK]

LRZ, Adams, Tompkins, Hawkins, North, Williams, Webb
Carre, Owens, Francis, Davies, Beard, Tshiunxa, Reffel, Faletau

Roberts, Thomas, Lewis, Jenkins, Wainwright, Hardy, K Williams, L Williams

[Sandydragon]

I thought we wee were flattered by the scoreboard v Italy, our backs looked pedestrian from phase play. Really worrying. Some unforced errors too and tbh thought Jac Morgan was quiet. Our backs worry me though. No composure.

Morgan isn’t a six.

I’d keep the same front five, and bring back Christ. Put Reffell in at seven and have Morgan on the bench.

Webb and Biggar at halfback

Tompkins and North in the centre.

LRZ and Adams on the wing and Liam at full back

I don’t think we will trouble the French defence next week with our structured attacks. I’d rather we keep it as close as possible in a scrappy game and have us the opportunity to Nick something undeserved. The centre partnership has promise but it’s not there yet and defensively it’s been exposed two games on the bounce. Tompkins has the experience and I can’t think of another 13 in the squad other than North. The way we are playing at the moment I’d rather Owen Watkin was in there as at least he can defend.

Our attacking play is awful on the whole and it won’t suddenly improve in one week. Better I think to look at something more realistic for next week and see what development can be done between now and the RWC.

[Son of Mathonwy]

My team for France:

Thomas
Owens
Francis
Beard
Davies
Tshiunza
Tipuric
Faletau
Webb
Patchell
Adams
Keiran Williams
Tompkins
LRZ
Liam Williams

Bench: Wyn Jones, Lewis, Baldwin, Jenkins, Morgan, Hardy, Owen Williams, North

Any left field suggestions here are justified by the fact that we are not going to win this game playing anything like we've seen so far.

That's enough Hawkins and Grady for now - they've had their chance (and then some), they have some promise but let's see what Keiran can do & we can rely on Tompkins.

The above are calls from the current squad but I would call up Johnny Williams now and put him in the 23 shirt. What's to lose?

[Wallpaperman]

I agree with changing the 2 centres, especially considering that they would be up against Danty and Fickou next weekend. I’d definitely look at Tompkins at 12, and am genuinely not sure about 13. Looking at the squad it’s going to have to be North, but I would be much more reassured by Watkin. I can’t see Gatland calling up Jonny Williams but he would be the 12 if I was picking the team.

Am a big fan of Patchell, but I don’t think he will get a look in next week, given that he wasn’t on the bench yesterday.

Also a fan of Tomos Williams, but I’d have Webb to start after yesterday, with Hardy on the bench. Don’t think that Williams’ head is in the right place at the moment.

The lack of creativity with the ball is a real problem, but it won’t be fixed in a week. I think it’s a coaching issue, rather than personnel. Yesterday’s backline was full of attacking players, with pace (half backs excepted) and good distributors at 9, 10, 12 and 13 and none of the tries came from what I would call a backline move.

I’d also go with with Rhys Davies at 4. Dafydd Jenkins hasn’t disappointed but I think he is an either/or with Beard. Davies has more grunt about him, which will help the front row and be needed v Willemse. He also plays with Beard regularly. I’d have Jenkins on the bench over AWJ.

Tshiunza is another with huge potential, but is starting out on his career and has played second row and at 6. For the time being I’d rather Moriarty or even Lydiate at 6. Ideally we’d have the Josh Navidi of circa 2019-2021 available. I do think he offers more for this game than Wainwright though, and I’d have him in at 6 next week. I’d stick with Tipuric at 7.

The front row has struggled more than I thought it would. Perhaps a heavy second row will help them. I thought it would be a breakthrough tournament for Gareth Thomas but he hasn’t shone. Anyway, my damage limitation 23 for next week is:

Wyn Jones
Owens
Francis
Rhys Davies
Beard
Tshiunza
Faletau
Tipuric
Webb
Owen Williams
Adams
Tompkins
North
Rees-Zammit
Liam Williams

Carre
Baldwin
Lewis
Jenkins
Morgan
Hardy
Biggar
Grady

[Tuco Ramirez]

Couple of selections for North at 13 here. WHY? Genuine question

[MrK]

Couple of selections for North at 13 here. WHY? Genuine question

Against my better judgement, and based on who we have in our squad, I have picked him on the wing for this one - I think Adams and North defensively have a better wing defensive game than Dyer and Zammit - I think France use their wingers more than most and maybe Im wrong, but dont kick quite as much as others and so I have gambled with LRZ at 15 - just to give him another run out in that position, but Id be equally happy swapping him and L Williams on my bench.

Hawkins and K Williams are really 12s, Tompkins plays most of his rugby for Saracens at 12, BUT I think from what we have available, he is the best option for 13 - Im torn between Hawkins and Kieran at 12, Ive stuck with Hawkins to give that 9,10,12 one more go - But Id like to see Williams on the bench and some game time

Up front we need to be able to at least try and negate their power from the off, so Carre, Rhys Davies, Tshiunza and Reffel all come in for me

Wainwright on the bench for Back Row Cover.

Hardy at this point is a better bench option than Tomos

[Wallpaperman]

Basically, it’s him or Grady, and I think it’s time to give Grady a rest. He has bags of talent, and potentially has a long wales career ahead of him, but he struggled yesterday, and the attack offered very little.

Wales are going to be on the back foot next week, and North fills a gap. I know that you think that North doesn’t have the natural instincts to play in the centre, and probably doesn’t have the pace any more to play on the wing at international level. I’d agree with you on that.

The only other alternative for 13 in the current squad, unless you consider Josh Adams, is Tompkins. I’ve put him at 12 in my team. North and Tompkins have played together in the past and in particular defended well in South Africa last year. It’s highly likely that the centres will have to put in a strong defensive shift on Saturday and I think they provide the best chance of it, from the current squad. I know that South Africa use their backline less than France will, but it’s something to go on.

Can I ask who you would pick at 13 ? It’s not a position of strength for Wales at present.

[UKHamlet]

We need

[UKHamlet]

Seriously though, our fitness and muscularity is way off the standard set by Ireland and France. I don't think it really matters who we choose, we will always be second best to a team that can out muscle us in every position, except maybe standoff half.

[Sandydragon]

Couple of selections for North at 13 here. WHY? Genuine question

Who else is in the squad?

[Sandydragon]

Seriously though, our fitness and muscularity is way off the standard set by Ireland and France. I don't think it really matters who we choose, we will always be second best to a team that can out muscle us in every position, except maybe standoff half.

Our fitness is a real problem at the moment and could be behind the dire AIs as well. Italy had far more gas in the tank at 65 mins than we did and we were hanging on by the fingernails at the end.

That’s a huge turnaround from a few years ago when we were supremely fit. I hope the long buildup for the WRC will help here, but what the hell is going wrong with the conditioning of our players? This isn’t just a welsh coaching team issue.

[Sourdust]

I would be more firmly onboard with damage limitation if we'd lost yesterday. As it is, this match is hugely unlikely to affect our final table position, and we even have a "success" target now of losing by less than 43 so I'm inclined to throw the dice.

If Keiran Williams doesn't get a place now, that's basically a squad pick wasted when we could have had a "solid" option like Watkin instead. Some will say he's benefited from being in camp, I suppose. I do however still see the logic in playing big, defensive wingers against France, even out-of-form ones, given that we have no capability (intention?) of using strike runners anyway. But keep LRZ at 15 'cos he's the one player we've got who can actually execute something off-plan; and Sanjay has already had his one game without a yellow card.

Up front, I'm clueless. No obvious fixes stand out for me. Start Refell, on the grounds that Morgan has been more solid than stellar. Davies for Jenkins might work. Otherwise, big shrug. IMO this would be a completely transformed pack with Josh Navidi and Dewi Lake in it, but that's the same old story.

[Sandydragon]

I think that the chances of us developing an all court game in time for the RWC are zero. There’s so many basics to work on that we might as well revert to Gatlandball and hope to get some self respect. Perhaps even a decent end position depending on how other games go.

As pointed out below, despite good passing players we struggle to put together a coherent attack, so let’s start building now on what’s the most likely team for the serious games in the RWC.

[MrK]

As pointed out below, despite good passing players we struggle to put together a coherent attack, so let’s start building now on what’s the most likely team for the serious games in the RWC.

Who do you think that would be?

Assuming FULL availability and the new 25 cap rule

[MrK]

As pointed out below, despite good passing players we struggle to put together a coherent attack, so let’s start building now on what’s the most likely team for the serious games in the RWC.

A stab at it, a few "wildcards" based on they could be Warrenball players

LRZ, McNicol, Tompkins, J Williams, Adams, Anscombe, Webb
Smith, Elias, Francis, Rowlands, Beard, Moriaty, Reffel, Faletau

B: Lake, Carre, Brown, Ball, Morgan, G Davies, Hawkins, North

Squad made up with
Thomas, Owens, Lewis
D Jenkins or C Hill
Tshiunza, Tipuric
Hardy
Biggar
Watkins
L WIlliams

19/14

[UKHamlet]

Seriously though, our fitness and muscularity is way off the standard set by Ireland and France. I don't think it really matters who we choose, we will always be second best to a team that can out muscle us in every position, except maybe standoff half.

Our fitness is a real problem at the moment and could be behind the dire AIs as well. Italy had far more gas in the tank at 65 mins than we did and we were hanging on by the fingernails at the end.

That’s a huge turnaround from a few years ago when we were supremely fit. I hope the long buildup for the WRC will help here, but what the hell is going wrong with the conditioning of our players? This isn’t just a welsh coaching team issue.

I think it's our muscularity more than our fitness. The other teams, especially France and Ireland have really bulked up.

[Sourdust]

I think it's our muscularity more than our fitness. The other teams, especially France and Ireland have really bulked up.

I get this impression too. We just lose so many collisions. We all bemoan the backs' lack of shape and the half-backs always kicking after 3 phases. But our backs are unable to get any momentum because our carries don't break the gainline, and every recycled ball comes out 2s too late if it comes at all. The best playmakers in the world aren't going to perform miracles if they only ever receive the ball standing still.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Couple of selections for North at 13 here. WHY? Genuine question

Who else is in the squad?

Tompkins?

[Sandydragon]

Couple of selections for North at 13 here. WHY? Genuine question

Who else is in the squad?

Tompkins?

I picked Tompkins already.

[Sandydragon]

Seriously though, our fitness and muscularity is way off the standard set by Ireland and France. I don't think it really matters who we choose, we will always be second best to a team that can out muscle us in every position, except maybe standoff half.

Our fitness is a real problem at the moment and could be behind the dire AIs as well. Italy had far more gas in the tank at 65 mins than we did and we were hanging on by the fingernails at the end.

That’s a huge turnaround from a few years ago when we were supremely fit. I hope the long buildup for the WRC will help here, but what the hell is going wrong with the conditioning of our players? This isn’t just a welsh coaching team issue.

I think it's our muscularity more than our fitness. The other teams, especially France and Ireland have really bulked up.

We did look shattered at 60 mins yesterday and much of the problem in the last 20 was being a yard too slow. It would be great to have huge ball carriers, but playing at tempo for the full 80 is essential and we presently can’t do that.

[Sandydragon]

As pointed out below, despite good passing players we struggle to put together a coherent attack, so let’s start building now on what’s the most likely team for the serious games in the RWC.

A stab at it, a few "wildcards" based on they could be Warrenball players

LRZ, McNicol, Tompkins, J Williams, Adams, Anscombe, Webb
Smith, Elias, Francis, Rowlands, Beard, Moriaty, Reffel, Faletau

B: Lake, Carre, Brown, Ball, Morgan, G Davies, Hawkins, North

Squad made up with
Thomas, Owens, Lewis
D Jenkins or C Hill
Tshiunza, Tipuric
Hardy
Biggar
Watkins
L WIlliams

19/14

We need some grunt up front. Our only dynamic ball carrying props can’t scrummage so we have to start with
Smith
Owens
Francis
Jenkins
Rowlands
Navidi
Reffell
Faletau

Some players who are good at ruck time and some who are tidy at grunt work. Line out might suffer a little but I prefer Navidi for his breakdown excellence. Jenkins I think offers more than Beard. Modiarty could be in the mix as well

In the backs it’s about tactical nouse and defence.
Webb
Biggar
Adam’s.
Tompkins
Watkin
LRZ
Williams

Bench
Carre
Lake
Lewis
Ball
Morgan
Gareth Davies
Anscombe
Jonny Williams

Plenty of ball carrying there on the bench which can generate some momentum.

Our first game vs Fiji is a must win and I don’t want to play a fast loose game against them better to play a controlled game.

[Sourdust]

Webb was crucial on Saturday but one MOTM against Italy doesn't suddenly put him back #1 IMO. On current form yes, he starts against France of course, but between now and the RWC I'm hoping that Tomos can somehow have a reverse mojoectomy operation. He's easily our most talented 9, but his current form is horrible. Hardy deserves to be in the mix too, probably off the bench as he creates impact that way.

[Sandydragon]

Webb was crucial on Saturday but one MOTM against Italy doesn't suddenly put him back #1 IMO. On current form yes, he starts against France of course, but between now and the RWC I'm hoping that Tomos can somehow have a reverse mojoectomy operation. He's easily our most talented 9, but his current form is horrible. Hardy deserves to be in the mix too, probably off the bench as he creates impact that way.

I agree to a point. I think we have to hope Tomos gets his mojo back. We need a nine who can stamp authority and kick well. Webb does give us that.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Couple of selections for North at 13 here. WHY? Genuine question

Who else is in the squad?

Tompkins?

my apologies

but please no NORTH. he has not played well for a few seasons now