It seems obvious to me...

[UKHamlet]

That if the WRU has only £5m to spend on each of the four regions, then that money would be better utilised by splitting it into two rather than four. That two should be Wales's largest cities: Cardiff and Swansea. Then Newport and Llanelli can go back to being dominant Premiership clubs, and as feeders to the fully professional clubs.

With time and success, we may be able to increase our fully professional sides to three.

Other things need to be done, like changing the Cardiff ownership to the WRU, getting rid of the drag weight influence of the minor clubs on the WRU, and ensuring both the commercial and rugby sides of the WRU are properly professional, but we need to bite the bullet sooner rather than later.

Irish dominance has been built on properly funded, successful clubs. France's success is being built by properly funded clubs. We need to use what we have, not piss it up against the wall by supporting too many regions.

[Sandydragon]

I agree that we should be looking at 2 top tier entities, but I disagree with your selection of Cardiff and Swansea. In a stroke that would alienate one of the regions in Wales with the highest number of amateur clubs and Llanelli area would also mutiny. If that is to work, then it can only do so as a proper East and West regions, merging the Cardiff and Dragons areas and be seen as a partnership rather than one benefiting over the other.

[Sandydragon]

And one of the major issue with the Ospreys is the lack of stadium ownership, so arguably that rules out Swansea.

[Sandydragon]

Meanwhile.....


The WRU is proposing setting up an 'Elite League' which will sit between the Premiership and the regions. Each region will nominate one club from their area, plus RGC, which will leave 3 slots for the other prom clubs to nominate themselves into, provided they meet some (currently unknown) criteria.

I can't see the Premiership clubs agreeing to this and I can only think that since the clubs refused to reduce the size f the Premiership, this is the WRU's attempt to force that issue by another means.

Comes across as a bit shyte quite frankly and tinkering rather than addressing the massive problems we have at the top level now.

[Numbers]

Meanwhile.....


The WRU is proposing setting up an 'Elite League' which will sit between the Premiership and the regions. Each region will nominate one club from their area, plus RGC, which will leave 3 slots for the other prom clubs to nominate themselves into, provided they meet some (currently unknown) criteria.

I can't see the Premiership clubs agreeing to this and I can only think that since the clubs refused to reduce the size f the Premiership, this is the WRU's attempt to force that issue by another means.

Comes across as a bit shyte quite frankly and tinkering rather than addressing the massive problems we have at the top level now.

Let's face it they're fucking clueless, simple maths tells us that 4 regions aren't sustainable.

[Tuco Ramirez]

I agree that we should be looking at 2 top tier entities, but I disagree with your selection of Cardiff and Swansea. In a stroke that would alienate one of the regions in Wales with the highest number of amateur clubs and Llanelli area would also mutiny. If that is to work, then it can only do so as a proper East and West regions, merging the Cardiff and Dragons areas and be seen as a partnership rather than one benefiting over the other.

This...... East and West.... clubs can fight over the Welsh Premiership. its all got to be equal

[UKHamlet]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

I firmly believe we should separate the WRU into two - one part focusing on the pro game and the international sides and the other on the amateur clubs. The good players will always migrate upwards anyway. So, allowing the amateur clubs to manage themselves with no influence on the pro game will be a good thing. Maybe a proportion of the revenue from the Internationals and Commercial streams can be ringfenced for the amateur game. Early development is important. Which leads to a third strand - a schools development focus. The Irish have a brilliant system we should seek to emulate.

[Numbers]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

I firmly believe we should separate the WRU into two - one part focusing on the pro game and the international sides and the other on the amateur clubs. The good players will always migrate upwards anyway. So, allowing the amateur clubs to manage themselves with no influence on the pro game will be a good thing. Maybe a proportion of the revenue from the Internationals and Commercial streams can be ringfenced for the amateur game. Early development is important. Which leads to a third strand - a schools development focus. The Irish have a brilliant system we should seek to emulate.

They're the private schools tho aren't they.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

All spoken like the true Cardiff supporter that you are.

[Sandydragon]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

I firmly believe we should separate the WRU into two - one part focusing on the pro game and the international sides and the other on the amateur clubs. The good players will always migrate upwards anyway. So, allowing the amateur clubs to manage themselves with no influence on the pro game will be a good thing. Maybe a proportion of the revenue from the Internationals and Commercial streams can be ringfenced for the amateur game. Early development is important. Which leads to a third strand - a schools development focus. The Irish have a brilliant system we should seek to emulate.

Disagree. It has to be equal games between Cardiff and Newport regions for this to work. Otherwise its the Celtic Warriors again, probably worse. And these have to be WRU owned and run ventures.

[Sandydragon]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

I firmly believe we should separate the WRU into two - one part focusing on the pro game and the international sides and the other on the amateur clubs. The good players will always migrate upwards anyway. So, allowing the amateur clubs to manage themselves with no influence on the pro game will be a good thing. Maybe a proportion of the revenue from the Internationals and Commercial streams can be ringfenced for the amateur game. Early development is important. Which leads to a third strand - a schools development focus. The Irish have a brilliant system we should seek to emulate.

the cynic in me would say that Cardiff are about to be hit very hard with player losses and need Newport funding/ players to stay afloat.

Whatever we do, someone will be upset and refuse to support the new structure. But also considering many in Welsh rugby haven't forgiven Cardiff for the rebel season either, it would not go down well outside of the city for them to remain at the top of the pile at the end of this at the expense of other sides. East and West might be a bit difficult to accept initially, and the naming must be better. But equally its something that everyone can buy into, not just the supporters of 2 club sides.

The only other alternative, a return to a top 10/12 clubs just won't work and the existing system is unsustainable. Time to let the clubs be clubs and let the WRU control 2 regions which are actual regions.

[UKHamlet]

Cardiff will definitely be hit hard. Max Llewellyn signed for Glaws today and about five or six others look like they're on their way.

[Sandydragon]

Cardiff will definitely be hit hard. Max Llewellyn signed for Glaws today and about five or six others look like they're on their way.

Teddy Williams appears to be the latest.

[UKHamlet]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

I firmly believe we should separate the WRU into two - one part focusing on the pro game and the international sides and the other on the amateur clubs. The good players will always migrate upwards anyway. So, allowing the amateur clubs to manage themselves with no influence on the pro game will be a good thing. Maybe a proportion of the revenue from the Internationals and Commercial streams can be ringfenced for the amateur game. Early development is important. Which leads to a third strand - a schools development focus. The Irish have a brilliant system we should seek to emulate.

They're the private schools tho aren't they.

They are, but the principle remains. Creating links with schools and a coherent pathway with a development plan is the foundation of success.

[Numbers]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

I firmly believe we should separate the WRU into two - one part focusing on the pro game and the international sides and the other on the amateur clubs. The good players will always migrate upwards anyway. So, allowing the amateur clubs to manage themselves with no influence on the pro game will be a good thing. Maybe a proportion of the revenue from the Internationals and Commercial streams can be ringfenced for the amateur game. Early development is important. Which leads to a third strand - a schools development focus. The Irish have a brilliant system we should seek to emulate.

They're the private schools tho aren't they.

They are, but the principle remains. Creating links with schools and a coherent pathway with a development plan is the foundation of success.

Comprehensive schools don't have separate rugby coaches like the private schools, they just have a PE teacher, it's incomparable imo.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

I firmly believe we should separate the WRU into two - one part focusing on the pro game and the international sides and the other on the amateur clubs. The good players will always migrate upwards anyway. So, allowing the amateur clubs to manage themselves with no influence on the pro game will be a good thing. Maybe a proportion of the revenue from the Internationals and Commercial streams can be ringfenced for the amateur game. Early development is important. Which leads to a third strand - a schools development focus. The Irish have a brilliant system we should seek to emulate.

They're the private schools tho aren't they.

They are, but the principle remains. Creating links with schools and a coherent pathway with a development plan is the foundation of success.

Clubs rather than schools, school rugby is as weak as piss

[Tuco Ramirez]

Whether we call them East / West, Cardiff / Swansea, or whatever is moot. They WILL be based in Cardiff and Swansea. Maybe with token games at Dave Parade and Parc y Scarlets. If we go for East / West it will take a decade to build an identity. If we go for Cardiff / Swansea we risk alienating the crucible from which so many players emerge - Carmarthenshire and beyond, and the Gwent Valleys, which has a lot of amateur clubs. We need a better name than East or West for the regions - that's utterly shite. Nobody will get behind a compass point. Cardiff and Swansea have a rich history (as Newport and Llanelli have too), but the whole "regional" idea is a failure. They still sing "I will never be a Blue" in Pontypridd, which is why I think it should be city focused.

I firmly believe we should separate the WRU into two - one part focusing on the pro game and the international sides and the other on the amateur clubs. The good players will always migrate upwards anyway. So, allowing the amateur clubs to manage themselves with no influence on the pro game will be a good thing. Maybe a proportion of the revenue from the Internationals and Commercial streams can be ringfenced for the amateur game. Early development is important. Which leads to a third strand - a schools development focus. The Irish have a brilliant system we should seek to emulate.

Disagree. It has to be equal games between Cardiff and Newport regions for this to work. Otherwise its the Celtic Warriors again, probably worse. And these have to be WRU owned and run ventures.

Munster share between Cork and Limerick... got to be this way

[Sandydragon]

They're the private schools tho aren't they.

They are, but the principle remains. Creating links with schools and a coherent pathway with a development plan is the foundation of success.

Comprehensive schools don't have separate rugby coaches like the private schools, they just have a PE teacher, it's incomparable imo.

I remember having 2 very passionate PE teachers who knew the game well and helped install that passion into many of the pupils they taught. Not many pupils are that lucky now and I can understand why schools are wary of developing rugby as a sport in schools due to the worry over injuries and especially concussions. The risk assessment for volleyball is simpler.

I think the best we can realistically hope for is that schools do tag rugby and that gives a taster to younger children, male and female, who can then look to develop that in a club setting if they like it.

[Numbers]

They're the private schools tho aren't they.

They are, but the principle remains. Creating links with schools and a coherent pathway with a development plan is the foundation of success.

Clubs rather than schools, school rugby is as weak as piss

Yeah, this would be the best route for Welsh development and for the clubs to engage with local schools in what they want them to focus on, the school system in Wales is not remotely comparable to Ireland so we can't use Ireland as a model for this.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I would keep 4 regions but reduce 2 to development status so the other two can be funded at a competitive level. It seems to me that dropping any of the regions to club status would damage seriously reduce support for rugby. (If instead we kept only Cardiff and Swansea as the centres of regions I can only see minimal support coming from anywhere to the East and West of those cities. And let's face it, results-wise several of the regions have only been producing results you'd expect from a development club anyway.

it would be necessary to properly understand what sort of support the regions currently get, and where it comes from (eg how many supporters the Scarlets attract from beyond Llanelli, Cardiff from outside Cardiff etc). Based on this info, a small redrawing of the regional map might make sense.

As for the choice of which two regions to maintain at a good level, it has to be based on the quality of rugby produced and the potential size of the fan base in the area. Based on this (although I may be biased ), the Ospreys make the grade, plus one of Scarlets and Cardiff . . . although how that would be decided I do not know. NB it's not the end of the world for a region to be a development region, look at Connacht.

As for identity, the regions should try to represent their areas, not their dominant clubs, so we can't have the old club names in the regional names (unless it makes sense to contract the 'Cardiff' region to Cardiff itself). So the Ospreys and Dragons names are fine, not sure about Scarlets, ideally it would not involve Llanelli colours. Ideally, new names linked to Wales should be picked eg Celts, Druids, Britons (sadly, Celtic Warriors was a good name in this respect), plus the part of Wales eg full titles being South West Wales Ospreys, East Wales Dragons, West Wales [Scarlets], South Wales [Cardiff]. It's vital that the clubs within each region are represented, so their symbols should be visible in some way on the main regional imagery. (And I suggest the players should always wear socks showing the colours of their original local club if from the region, otherwise they should be assigned a local club to 'represent' and whose socks they wear).

The regions should all be run with a key purpose of developing players for Wales. All coaching needs to be run along the same lines, to standards drawn up by the national coaches.

The WRU should work towards taking control of the regions, perhaps by taking joint ownership or full acquisition in the case of clubs that are not financially viable. NB this does assume the WRU is run in a more professional and competent manner in future. Obviously the WRU needs to concentrate on rugby not diversify into property.

[Sandydragon]

Silurian Warriors, Demetian Druids, Ordovices Dragons.

Just rolls off the tongue

[Son of Mathonwy]

Silurian Warriors, Demetian Druids, Ordovices Dragons.

Just rolls off the tongue

And you'll get the Dr Who fans in with the first one. What's not to like??

[UKHamlet]

Silurian Warriors, Demetian Druids, Ordovices Dragons.

Just rolls off the tongue

Cardiff RFC
Swansea RFC

Much better.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Silurian Warriors, Demetian Druids, Ordovices Dragons.

Just rolls off the tongue

Cardiff RFC
Swansea RFC

Much better.

...but you can see the problem with this, right?

[Son of Mathonwy]

Good news with the EGM vote. Now they just need to make some good hires.

At last a step in the right direction.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... e-26560365