Malcolm in the muddle

[UKHamlet]

Malcolm Wall outlines his vision. Four regions. Sustainable costs. Development.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... h-26632434

[Tuco Ramirez]

i have not read the article in full as it is the usual waffle. What i will say is though, with the wage structure we now have in place, if 4 teams have 2 million each for arguments sake, and there are people leaving left right and centre then if we had 2 teams with 4 million each then surely they could pay double the money and it would then generate a more elite environment and separate the wheat from the chaff. Simplistic possibly but its simple economics

[Numbers]

i have not read the article in full as it is the usual waffle. What i will say is though, with the wage structure we now have in place, if 4 teams have 2 million each for arguments sake, and there are people leaving left right and centre then if we had 2 teams with 4 million each then surely they could pay double the money and it would then generate a more elite environment and separate the wheat from the chaff. Simplistic possibly but its simple economics

Your sentiment is correct, there's no way four regions are sustainable with the current level of funding the way I see it.

[Sandydragon]

The funding model needs to change to sustain 4. I would like to see 4 regions remain as I think that gives us the best chance at developing the national side. 2 slides is too few. Also, as we know from this board, if you merge Cardiff and Newport to create an East Wales side, it won't bring all of the supporters with it, at least not unless it started to win games.

So the challenge is to make the finances work. Which means growing the business.

[Sandydragon]

Regarding the point about roads. I'm not the first to point out on line that comparing Harlequins with Cardiff and others isnt entirely comparing like for like. The population within 20m of harlequins is substantially larger than that of Cardiff. When you look at the proportion of that population which is attending rugby matches, it stacks up quite favourably. But clearly crowd sizes are a problem.

SO many Welsh supporters want a return to the old Welsh league, that thats just not sustainable, and unless there is a shift to a GB league (which doesn't seem likely right now) then we need to market what we are in much better. The playing standard of our league is good. There's some great teams in it. We need to improve our own standard to be more competitive, but also get over this fascination with the English and only being interested when we are playing English teams.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Wall's vision is conservative - changing little but running things more professionally. Hopefully the board-level changes can be effective, although of course this will take a long time to have any tangible impact.

My feeling is that having 4 professional teams is best for delivering the number of national players we need and some level of fan support. Cutting a team or two would cut into both of these. However, spreading our reduced resources evenly across the 4 will mean than none of the teams will be competitive (since they're only sporadically competitive now). So I would keep 4 but drop 1 or 2 to a considerably lower-funded development status.

So I expect a continuation in the decline of the regions. A large number of our national squad will move abroad as their contracts expire. The prospects for the national team are less worrying than for the regions IF it can be coached well, and eventually a more professionally-run WRU may drive player development standards up (though not to Irish levels, since Irish rugby has a much more sensible organisational structure). But the regions will be propping up the bottom of the table and not get anywhere near the European Champions Cup competition. In effect all 4 regions will be development teams, nothing more.

[Sandydragon]

Wall's vision is conservative - changing little but running things more professionally. Hopefully the board-level changes can be effective, although of course this will take a long time to have any tangible impact.

My feeling is that having 4 professional teams is best for delivering the number of national players we need and some level of fan support. Cutting a team or two would cut into both of these. However, spreading our reduced resources evenly across the 4 will mean than none of the teams will be competitive (since they're only sporadically competitive now). So I would keep 4 but drop 1 or 2 to a considerably lower-funded development status.

So I expect a continuation in the decline of the regions. A large number of our national squad will move abroad as their contracts expire. The prospects for the national team are less worrying than for the regions IF it can be coached well, and eventually a more professionally-run WRU may drive player development standards up (though not to Irish levels, since Irish rugby has a much more sensible organisational structure). But the regions will be propping up the bottom of the table and not get anywhere near the European Champions Cup competition. In effect all 4 regions will be development teams, nothing more.

It often feels to me like we want the type of system the English have, but with considerably shallower pockets. We need to move towards a more centralised model where we can ensure that promising Welsh talent is getting game time and that the 4 regions are supporting the development of players for international games - which is where much of our money comes from. That means a common approach and the delivery of something to ensure that basic skills and fitness are actually present and not being coached by Gatland in camp.

[Numbers]

Wall's vision is conservative - changing little but running things more professionally. Hopefully the board-level changes can be effective, although of course this will take a long time to have any tangible impact.

My feeling is that having 4 professional teams is best for delivering the number of national players we need and some level of fan support. Cutting a team or two would cut into both of these. However, spreading our reduced resources evenly across the 4 will mean than none of the teams will be competitive (since they're only sporadically competitive now). So I would keep 4 but drop 1 or 2 to a considerably lower-funded development status.

So I expect a continuation in the decline of the regions. A large number of our national squad will move abroad as their contracts expire. The prospects for the national team are less worrying than for the regions IF it can be coached well, and eventually a more professionally-run WRU may drive player development standards up (though not to Irish levels, since Irish rugby has a much more sensible organisational structure). But the regions will be propping up the bottom of the table and not get anywhere near the European Champions Cup competition. In effect all 4 regions will be development teams, nothing more.

It often feels to me like we want the type of system the English have, but with considerably shallower pockets. We need to move towards a more centralised model where we can ensure that promising Welsh talent is getting game time and that the 4 regions are supporting the development of players for international games - which is where much of our money comes from. That means a common approach and the delivery of something to ensure that basic skills and fitness are actually present and not being coached by Gatland in camp.

Wales isn't comparable to Ireland or England in the way rugby works, for example the majority of the Leinster players come through a couple of private schools where the IRFU isn't paying for the rugby coaching/player development, in Wales we don't have that to anything like the same extent and so more money is needed from somewhere and when the regions can't sell out home stadiums like the Irish clubs can there is another financial shortfall.

[paddy no 11]

Wall's vision is conservative - changing little but running things more professionally. Hopefully the board-level changes can be effective, although of course this will take a long time to have any tangible impact.

My feeling is that having 4 professional teams is best for delivering the number of national players we need and some level of fan support. Cutting a team or two would cut into both of these. However, spreading our reduced resources evenly across the 4 will mean than none of the teams will be competitive (since they're only sporadically competitive now). So I would keep 4 but drop 1 or 2 to a considerably lower-funded development status.

So I expect a continuation in the decline of the regions. A large number of our national squad will move abroad as their contracts expire. The prospects for the national team are less worrying than for the regions IF it can be coached well, and eventually a more professionally-run WRU may drive player development standards up (though not to Irish levels, since Irish rugby has a much more sensible organisational structure). But the regions will be propping up the bottom of the table and not get anywhere near the European Champions Cup competition. In effect all 4 regions will be development teams, nothing more.

It often feels to me like we want the type of system the English have, but with considerably shallower pockets. We need to move towards a more centralised model where we can ensure that promising Welsh talent is getting game time and that the 4 regions are supporting the development of players for international games - which is where much of our money comes from. That means a common approach and the delivery of something to ensure that basic skills and fitness are actually present and not being coached by Gatland in camp.

Wales isn't comparable to Ireland or England in the way rugby works, for example the majority of the Leinster players come through a couple of private schools where the IRFU isn't paying for the rugby coaching/player development, in Wales we don't have that to anything like the same extent and so more money is needed from somewhere and when the regions can't sell out home stadiums like the Irish clubs can there is another financial shortfall.

Your correct here school alumni pumping money to get 17 and 18 year old to win a school comp, semi pro. Ireland have 3 of the last 4 u-20s won based on this stuff

[Sandydragon]

Wall's vision is conservative - changing little but running things more professionally. Hopefully the board-level changes can be effective, although of course this will take a long time to have any tangible impact.

My feeling is that having 4 professional teams is best for delivering the number of national players we need and some level of fan support. Cutting a team or two would cut into both of these. However, spreading our reduced resources evenly across the 4 will mean than none of the teams will be competitive (since they're only sporadically competitive now). So I would keep 4 but drop 1 or 2 to a considerably lower-funded development status.

So I expect a continuation in the decline of the regions. A large number of our national squad will move abroad as their contracts expire. The prospects for the national team are less worrying than for the regions IF it can be coached well, and eventually a more professionally-run WRU may drive player development standards up (though not to Irish levels, since Irish rugby has a much more sensible organisational structure). But the regions will be propping up the bottom of the table and not get anywhere near the European Champions Cup competition. In effect all 4 regions will be development teams, nothing more.

It often feels to me like we want the type of system the English have, but with considerably shallower pockets. We need to move towards a more centralised model where we can ensure that promising Welsh talent is getting game time and that the 4 regions are supporting the development of players for international games - which is where much of our money comes from. That means a common approach and the delivery of something to ensure that basic skills and fitness are actually present and not being coached by Gatland in camp.

Wales isn't comparable to Ireland or England in the way rugby works, for example the majority of the Leinster players come through a couple of private schools where the IRFU isn't paying for the rugby coaching/player development, in Wales we don't have that to anything like the same extent and so more money is needed from somewhere and when the regions can't sell out home stadiums like the Irish clubs can there is another financial shortfall.

I agree there are differences, but at a high level we need to be more centrally controlled than free market. France, and to a lesser extent England, can afford to let natural section through club proton and relegation take its course. We need to be following the centralised control model more to make the most of scare resources. Schools vs academies is something we need to address, noting that our own u20 side was successful fairly recently so it’s not a total bust with decent funding.