World Cup Training Squad

[Son of Mathonwy]

Forwards (31)
Rhys Carre (Cardiff Rugby – 20 caps)
Corey Domachowski (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped)
Kemsley Mathias (Scarlets – uncapped)
Nicky Smith (Ospreys – 42 caps)
Gareth Thomas (Ospreys – 21 caps)
Eliott Dee (Dragons – 41 caps)
Ryan Elias (Scarlets – 33 caps)
Dewi Lake (Ospreys – 8 caps)
Ken Owens (Scarlets – 91 caps)
Keiron Assiratti (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped)
Tomas Francis (Ospreys – 71 caps)
Will Davies-King (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped)
Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Rugby – 50 caps)
Henry Thomas (Montpellier – uncapped)
Adam Beard (Ospreys – 46 caps)
Ben Carter (Dragons – 9 caps)
Rhys Davies (Ospreys – 2 caps)
Cory Hill (Yokohama Canon Eagles – 32 caps)
Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs – 6 cap)
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys – 157 caps)
Will Rowlands (Dragons – 23 caps)
Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs – 5 caps)
Teddy Williams (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped)
Taine Basham (Dragons – 11 caps)
Taulupe Faletau (Cardiff Rugby – 100 caps)
Dan Lydiate (Ospreys – 68 caps)
Josh Macleod (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Jac Morgan (Ospreys – 9 caps)
Tommy Reffell (Leicester Tigers – 9 caps)
Justin Tipuric (Ospreys – 93 caps)
Aaron Wainwright (Dragons – 37 caps)

Backs (23)
Gareth Davies (Scarlets – 67 caps)
Kieran Hardy (Scarlets – 17 caps)
Rhys Webb (Ospreys – 40 caps)
Tomos Williams (Cardiff Rugby – 45 caps)
Gareth Anscombe (Ospreys – 35 caps)
Dan Biggar (Toulon – 107 caps)
Sam Costelow (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Owen Williams (Ospreys – 7 caps)
Mason Grady (Cardiff Rugby – 2 caps)
Max Llewellyn (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped)
George North (Ospreys – 113 caps)
Joe Roberts (Scarlets – uncapped)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens – 27 caps)
Johnny Williams (Scarlets – 5 caps)
Keiran Williams (Ospreys – uncapped)
Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby – 49 caps)
Alex Cuthbert (Ospreys – 57 caps)
Rio Dyer (Dragons – 7 caps)
Cai Evans (Ospreys – uncapped)
Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets – 99 caps)
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby – 25 caps)
Tom Rogers (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Liam Williams (Cardiff Rugby – 84 caps)

[Son of Mathonwy]

No idea who Kemsley Mathias and Henry Thomas are . . .

Morgan Morris and Angus O'Brien have to wonder what they need to do.

Gatland must be so pissed at Hawkins after spending so much 6N time on him.

[Ross. S]

No idea who Kemsley Mathias and Henry Thomas are . . .

Henry Thomas is 31 and has 7 caps for England. Are we really that hard up? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Tho ... gby_union)

[Puja]

No idea who Kemsley Mathias and Henry Thomas are . . .

Henry Thomas is 31 and has 7 caps for England. Are we really that hard up? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Tho ... gby_union)

He was a very decent prospect once upon a time - he was the great hope at tighthead, only to be continually riddled with injuries, especially to his neck. I don't watch the T14, but if he's fit and firing and anywhere near where he was expected to be, he could be a very good acquisition. However, when he left England, he was running at "solidly okay" at best - we're hardly flush with decent tightheads ourselves and he was nowhere near an EPS at the time.

Puja

[Wallpaperman]

No idea who Kemsley Mathias and Henry Thomas are . . .

Morgan Morris and Angus O'Brien have to wonder what they need to do.

Gatland must be so pissed at Hawkins after spending so much 6N time on him.

I didn’t know Thomas either, an interesting pick.

I like Mathias, up and coming loose head at Scarlets.

Thought that O’Brien would be picked, he is unlucky. I don’t think Gatland will ever go for Morris at 8 due to his relative lack of size. He likes Wainwright as backup to Faletau, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he had a look at Tshiunza at 8 in the warm ups.

Really pleased that they have shoehorned Rowlands into the squad.

[Sandydragon]

No idea who Kemsley Mathias and Henry Thomas are . . .

Morgan Morris and Angus O'Brien have to wonder what they need to do.

Gatland must be so pissed at Hawkins after spending so much 6N time on him.

I didn’t know Thomas either, an interesting pick.

I like Mathias, up and coming loose head at Scarlets.

Thought that O’Brien would be picked, he is unlucky. I don’t think Gatland will ever go for Morris at 8 due to his relative lack of size. He likes Wainwright as backup to Faletau, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he had a look at Tshiunza at 8 in the warm ups.

Really pleased that they have shoehorned Rowlands into the squad.

Yep, very good news on Rowlands who has a few seasons left in him and was in very good firm pre injury.

I agree with SoM that Gatland must be really pissed with Hawkins after putting such faith in him during the 6 nations. Feels like a wasted opportunity.

A few big names and in form players missing out, but there’s big competition in some positions and a RWC needs a blend of in form and known performers with experience. Hopefully the players can put the nightmare season behind them and focus in the next few months.

[Wallpaperman]

Agree with both SoM and Sandy re Hawkins. From what Gatland has said today I don’t think he is happy with what was offered by the Ospreys. He also wouldn’t be a guaranteed starter with Owen Williams at 10 and Kieran Williams and Owen Watkin in the centre.

Best of luck to him, shame they couldn’t work something out.

[ALunpg]

Lots of new players and quite a few old heads, I am happy that we are looking at Thomas, Davis-King and Asserati, as we are pretty low on tightheads. One of them will probably go to France so it can be a real incentive.
Same for the looseheads , but not sure either will get there unless there are injuries, but as Gatland said, historically they happen and they have a shot to put their name on the list.

On the injury point , are teams allowed to call up subs if a player is ruled out of the tournament once the sqaud is named ?

[Puja]

On the injury point , are teams allowed to call up subs if a player is ruled out of the tournament once the sqaud is named ?

Yes - you can replace a player for injury, but the only rule is that it's a permanent replacement, so the player generally has to be out of the tournament entirely.

Puja

[Numbers]

I would think that Thomas Young and Bradley Roberts can be a little disappointed by this selection, Young has been the standout 7 in Welsh rugby this season imo.

How Cai Evans is anywhere near the squad is just baffling, McNichol would have been a far better choice, or as some have suggested O'Brien.

Good to see Llewellyn in the squad and also Joe Roberts.

[Sandydragon]

On the injury point , are teams allowed to call up subs if a player is ruled out of the tournament once the sqaud is named ?

Yes - you can replace a player for injury, but the only rule is that it's a permanent replacement, so the player generally has to be out of the tournament entirely.

Puja

I think we tested this a few years ago by taking an injured player to the RWC and hoping they would be fit for the crunch games.

[Sandydragon]

I would think that Thomas Young and Bradley Roberts can be a little disappointed by this selection, Young has been the standout 7 in Welsh rugby this season imo.

How Cai Evans is anywhere near the squad is just baffling, McNichol would have been a far better choice, or as some have suggested O'Brien.

Good to see Llewellyn in the squad and also Joe Roberts.

Yep. I can see Gatland liking Llewelyn a lot.

[Numbers]

I would think that Thomas Young and Bradley Roberts can be a little disappointed by this selection, Young has been the standout 7 in Welsh rugby this season imo.

How Cai Evans is anywhere near the squad is just baffling, McNichol would have been a far better choice, or as some have suggested O'Brien.

Good to see Llewellyn in the squad and also Joe Roberts.

Yep. I can see Gatland liking Llewelyn a lot.

Aye, Llewellyn and Grady in the centres, bosh.

[Sourdust]

I would think that Thomas Young and Bradley Roberts can be a little disappointed by this selection, Young has been the standout 7 in Welsh rugby this season imo.

How Cai Evans is anywhere near the squad is just baffling, McNichol would have been a far better choice, or as some have suggested O'Brien.

Good to see Llewellyn in the squad and also Joe Roberts.

Agreed.

"We have loads of good back rowers in Wales" isn't a good enough answer when a player is in the kind of form Young has been in.

Evans is just bizarre. Do they need to keep Ieuan sweet for some reason?

MnNic has had enough chances IMO, but I think O'Brien can justly say "I've ticked all the boxes, it's on you."

[ALunpg]

.
Didnt see the Evans selection coming either, but the only thing I noticed in Gatlands comments it seemed mostly about his goal kicking,

Just for my knowledge, has O'Brien been taking the goal kicking lately, I know he used to when he was at Dragons before ?

[Son of Mathonwy]

Amazing contrast - Henry Thomas quitting Montpelier for Wales and Joe Hawkins quitting Wales for Exeter:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-26860004

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-26849306

Kudos to Thomas - he obviously has plenty of Welsh in him to make this call.

Hawkins - well, it's his choice to make but for all the experience he'll get out of Exeter, surely that doesn't compare with playing at the international level? Anyway, there's still hot competition for the 12 shirt with Tompkins, Johnny and Keiran Williams, also Llewellyn.

[Sandydragon]

Amazing contrast - Henry Thomas quitting Montpelier for Wales and Joe Hawkins quitting Wales for Exeter:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-26860004

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-26849306

Kudos to Thomas - he obviously has plenty of Welsh in him to make this call.

Hawkins - well, it's his choice to make but for all the experience he'll get out of Exeter, surely that doesn't compare with playing at the international level? Anyway, there's still hot competition for the 12 shirt with Tompkins, Johnny and Keiran Williams, also Llewellyn.

We need a decent tighthead at the Dragons. Totally agree though, he must have been on a decent contract and he’s taken a big risk here to play for Wales. Fair play

[Puja]

Amazing contrast - Henry Thomas quitting Montpelier for Wales and Joe Hawkins quitting Wales for Exeter:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-26860004

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-26849306

Kudos to Thomas - he obviously has plenty of Welsh in him to make this call.

Hawkins - well, it's his choice to make but for all the experience he'll get out of Exeter, surely that doesn't compare with playing at the international level? Anyway, there's still hot competition for the 12 shirt with Tompkins, Johnny and Keiran Williams, also Llewellyn.

In fairness, Hawkins is a young player, who was (by all accounts) still on an academy pay contract despite playing for Wales, making a decision at a time when the Welsh domestic game was in turmoil with no guarantee that he'd get a contract at all or that it would be of any value. Whereas Thomas has been playing and earning for 12 seasons, including during the big-money days in the Prem, a bit of England international money, and a decent contract in Montpellier, and is looking for a contract now that the Welsh pay deal has been agreed and regions are actually in a position to offer security.

I don't see that the two are comparable at all. I've got a lot of sympathy for Hawkins - if he'd turned down a Welsh contract to sign abroad, that'd be one thing, but as he didn't know at the time if any contract was ever going to be coming, that's very much another.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Amazing contrast - Henry Thomas quitting Montpelier for Wales and Joe Hawkins quitting Wales for Exeter:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-26860004

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-26849306

Kudos to Thomas - he obviously has plenty of Welsh in him to make this call.

Hawkins - well, it's his choice to make but for all the experience he'll get out of Exeter, surely that doesn't compare with playing at the international level? Anyway, there's still hot competition for the 12 shirt with Tompkins, Johnny and Keiran Williams, also Llewellyn.

In fairness, Hawkins is a young player, who was (by all accounts) still on an academy pay contract despite playing for Wales, making a decision at a time when the Welsh domestic game was in turmoil with no guarantee that he'd get a contract at all or that it would be of any value. Whereas Thomas has been playing and earning for 12 seasons, including during the big-money days in the Prem, a bit of England international money, and a decent contract in Montpellier, and is looking for a contract now that the Welsh pay deal has been agreed and regions are actually in a position to offer security.

I don't see that the two are comparable at all. I've got a lot of sympathy for Hawkins - if he'd turned down a Welsh contract to sign abroad, that'd be one thing, but as he didn't know at the time if any contract was ever going to be coming, that's very much another.

Puja

Agreed they're in very, very different circumstances. It's an interesting contrast but of course what's right for one may well not be right for the other.

For Hawkins I honestly think he's made a mistake ie he'll be worse off for this. Of course the money will be a lot better for now and it was (and still is, to a lesser extent) a time of great uncertainty. But he can't have any big financial commitments yet - he's never been on good money - so he's got far less reason to go for the big money now (and sacrifice a chance to play in the RWC and nail down a starting place in the national team).

[Puja]

Agreed they're in very, very different circumstances. It's an interesting contrast but of course what's right for one may well not be right for the other.

For Hawkins I honestly think he's made a mistake ie he'll be worse off for this. Of course the money will be a lot better for now and it was (and still is, to a lesser extent) a time of great uncertainty. But he can't have any big financial commitments yet - he's never been on good money - so he's got far less reason to go for the big money now (and sacrifice a chance to play in the RWC and nail down a starting place in the national team).

I would agree that Hawkins has probably made a mistake - playing for Wales in a RWC would significantly increase his marketability for one thing and I'm not 100% convinced about Exeter being a great environment to develop in. I think he made a gamble that Wales wouldn't enforce the overseas rule for people who left when there weren't contracts on the table (like the RFU agreed to activate 'exceptional circumstances' for those unemployed when Wasps and Wuss went under) and it's not paid off for him.

Although, if he's got a three year contract and has any English heritage, we'd be more than happy to give him a route back into international rugby...

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Agreed they're in very, very different circumstances. It's an interesting contrast but of course what's right for one may well not be right for the other.

For Hawkins I honestly think he's made a mistake ie he'll be worse off for this. Of course the money will be a lot better for now and it was (and still is, to a lesser extent) a time of great uncertainty. But he can't have any big financial commitments yet - he's never been on good money - so he's got far less reason to go for the big money now (and sacrifice a chance to play in the RWC and nail down a starting place in the national team).

I would agree that Hawkins has probably made a mistake - playing for Wales in a RWC would significantly increase his marketability for one thing and I'm not 100% convinced about Exeter being a great environment to develop in. I think he made a gamble that Wales wouldn't enforce the overseas rule for people who left when there weren't contracts on the table (like the RFU agreed to activate 'exceptional circumstances' for those unemployed when Wasps and Wuss went under) and it's not paid off for him.

Although, if he's got a three year contract and has any English heritage, we'd be more than happy to give him a route back into international rugby...

Puja

Also worth considering that he seems to be playing second fiddle to Kieran Williams at the Ospreys. It’s a big risk for him all things considered though, especially if someone like Kieran Williams or Llewelyn nails down that 12 spot, which I think Llewelyn will do well in.

[Sandydragon]

Agreed they're in very, very different circumstances. It's an interesting contrast but of course what's right for one may well not be right for the other.

For Hawkins I honestly think he's made a mistake ie he'll be worse off for this. Of course the money will be a lot better for now and it was (and still is, to a lesser extent) a time of great uncertainty. But he can't have any big financial commitments yet - he's never been on good money - so he's got far less reason to go for the big money now (and sacrifice a chance to play in the RWC and nail down a starting place in the national team).

I would agree that Hawkins has probably made a mistake - playing for Wales in a RWC would significantly increase his marketability for one thing and I'm not 100% convinced about Exeter being a great environment to develop in. I think he made a gamble that Wales wouldn't enforce the overseas rule for people who left when there weren't contracts on the table (like the RFU agreed to activate 'exceptional circumstances' for those unemployed when Wasps and Wuss went under) and it's not paid off for him.

Although, if he's got a three year contract and has any English heritage, we'd be more than happy to give him a route back into international rugby...

Puja

Parents both sides seem to have strong rugby roots in the Carmarthen area, maybe a grandparent who might have been born on the wrong side of the Severn

[Numbers]

Amazing contrast - Henry Thomas quitting Montpelier for Wales and Joe Hawkins quitting Wales for Exeter:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-26860004

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-26849306

Kudos to Thomas - he obviously has plenty of Welsh in him to make this call.

Hawkins - well, it's his choice to make but for all the experience he'll get out of Exeter, surely that doesn't compare with playing at the international level? Anyway, there's still hot competition for the 12 shirt with Tompkins, Johnny and Keiran Williams, also Llewellyn.

Henry Thomas hasn't ditched Montpellier, if anything it's the other way round, after being selected for the warm up games they no longer wanted him as they need cover for the International window during the World Cup.

[Sandydragon]

Amazing contrast - Henry Thomas quitting Montpelier for Wales and Joe Hawkins quitting Wales for Exeter:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-26860004

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-26849306

Kudos to Thomas - he obviously has plenty of Welsh in him to make this call.

Hawkins - well, it's his choice to make but for all the experience he'll get out of Exeter, surely that doesn't compare with playing at the international level? Anyway, there's still hot competition for the 12 shirt with Tompkins, Johnny and Keiran Williams, also Llewellyn.

Henry Thomas hasn't ditched Montpellier, if anything it's the other way round, after being selected for the warm up games they no longer wanted him as they need cover for the International window during the World Cup.

Yes, I think the point is that he knew (having spoken to his manager) that if he did choose to be available for Wales, then his services would no longer be required. So its still a pretty big call by him to give up on his existing contract.

[Puja]

Carre booted for failing to hit fitness targets: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65779199

Brutal, but it'll put the wind up anyone else who's not been putting the work in.

Puja