Saudi investment into the Premiership

[Danno]

Well this is fucking gross

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... newcastle/

[twitchy]

#rugbyvalues

[Margin_Walker]

Yep, it's rank. I'm half out anyway, but that's probably me done with prem rugby if it comes to pass.

[FKAS]

"Stadium naming rights and a rugby academy in Saudi Arabia are on the cards if a deal goes through"

If Saudi Arabia want to spend multiple million rebadging Mattioli Woods Welford Road to Visit Saudi Arabia Welford Road I'm not that fussed. Tigers already do international rugby camps so another one doesn't make much difference.

Saudi state control of the club though, that would make me uncomfortable. The club has been up for sale previously though so who knows. Glaws have been on the market and Falcons need to be sold on. Mildly surprised to see Saints linked as well but times are financially tough I guess.

[Puja]

"albeit with ethical considerations"

That's putting it fucking mildly.

Puja

[Puja]

Just been onto the Leicester messageboard to try and rabble rouse for a pushback to this and was appalled to see a large number of "Weeeeeell, I'm sure it wouldn't be too bad and we do need the funding."

This was my response; I don't know how much good it will do.

"Less than ideal" is an understatement.

Saudi Arabia are actively stoking the brutal civil war in Yemen, profiting both from arms sales and from an expansion of their regional power (https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/mid ... ort-yemen/)

A woman who supported personal freedom and women's rights on twitter has been sentenced to 34 years in jail (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... ng-twitter)

They use a similar migrant worker scheme to the one Qatar used for the football world cup, effectively having an underclass of workers with no rights who are abused, exploited, and often "arbitrarily detained in inhumane conditions, tortured and otherwise ill-treated". (https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/mid ... di-arabia/)

Since 2015, the country has executed 1,257 people, often under kangaroo courts, flimsy evidence, and with tortured confessions. Some of those executed were children when the alleged crimes were committed. (https://reprieve.org/uk/2024/01/02/saud ... e-in-2023/)

And let's not forget they're 169th out of 180 countries for freedom of the press, with religious courts offering out lashes for criticisms of the doctrine of the country and the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi being, not just an isolated event, but one you've heard of because he has a US passport. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorshi ... udi_Arabia)

And, on top of all of that, 20% of Saudi Arabia lives in abject poverty and, instead of investing in them and reducing the hilarious inequality between the super-rich elite and the majority, the royal family are spending their money on branding, buying sporting events and clubs, and the loyalty that comes with them, to make it so that people's first thought about Saudi Arabia isn't, "That's the place where it was legally codified that it's fine for a man to rape his wife last year"[/url], but "That's the place that allowed us to bring in Dupont as our marquee player and I'm sure they're not really *that* bad."


This isn't "less than ideal" or "a little bit dodgy" - this is selling our souls and being expected to shill for and market a country and leadership, so that they can continue widespread horrendous human rights abuses. This wouldn't be, "Ooh, they're just an investor" - they would expect us marketing them and would make us actively complicit in the propaganda that covers up their crimes. The literal very least we can do in the faces of such horrors is not agree to be bribed to ignore it.

We should be better than this.

[Margin_Walker]

Yeah, I guess it's a personal thing at the end of the day. You'll get a lot of 'we put Saudi oil in our cars' and other whataboutery. But that's Realpolitik and ultimately outside of the control of the individual.

This is clear sportswashing for an appalling regime. The aim isn't ROI, it's purely a PR exercise. I can't imagine being a LGBT fan of one of these clubs would feel nice if it ended up happening with capital punishment in place for homosexuality in the Kingdom. Fans do have a choice here.

[Which Tyler]

TF for Bruce Craig.

My interest in the Prem has been waning for a few years now anyway; this would be another hit to my interest; if my club were named, I think Prem would have lost me and I'd have had to find a way of watching Top14 regularly, and actually picking a team, rather than having 2-3 I kinda keep an eye on.

[twitchy]

Remember when we had quaint little controversies like exeter's logo.

[FKAS]

Just been onto the Leicester messageboard to try and rabble rouse for a pushback to this and was appalled to see a large number of "Weeeeeell, I'm sure it wouldn't be too bad and we do need the funding."

Ah yes the "as long as we don't have to see the bad stuff" or the "ignorance is bliss" approach.

The media in this country and our own government (all three parties) have long since turned a blind eye to the crimes in the oil states because they wanted access to the financial resources from said oil. The attitude has generally then been adopted by the populace, only helped by the investment in various football clubs etc.

[Stom]

I'm thinking of just giving up on sports in general, tbh...

[Puja]

Just been onto the Leicester messageboard to try and rabble rouse for a pushback to this and was appalled to see a large number of "Weeeeeell, I'm sure it wouldn't be too bad and we do need the funding."

Ah yes the "as long as we don't have to see the bad stuff" or the "ignorance is bliss" approach.

The media in this country and our own government (all three parties) have long since turned a blind eye to the crimes in the oil states because they wanted access to the financial resources from said oil. The attitude has generally then been adopted by the populace, only helped by the investment in various football clubs etc.

My post has since been deleted by the mods.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Just been onto the Leicester messageboard to try and rabble rouse for a pushback to this and was appalled to see a large number of "Weeeeeell, I'm sure it wouldn't be too bad and we do need the funding."

Ah yes the "as long as we don't have to see the bad stuff" or the "ignorance is bliss" approach.

The media in this country and our own government (all three parties) have long since turned a blind eye to the crimes in the oil states because they wanted access to the financial resources from said oil. The attitude has generally then been adopted by the populace, only helped by the investment in various football clubs etc.

That’s a quick u-turn from this:

‘If Saudi Arabia want to spend multiple million rebadging Mattioli Woods Welford Road to Visit Saudi Arabia Welford Road I'm not that fussed’.

[Margin_Walker]

My post has since been deleted by the mods.

Puja

Ha. Superb.

The washing begins with the offie

[Which Tyler]

My post has since been deleted by the mods.

The washing begins with the offie

I'd assumed it was the UnOffie

[Margin_Walker]

My post has since been deleted by the mods.

The washing begins with the offie

I'd assumed it was the UnOffie

Nah, think that was on the offie. Not appropriate to discuss politics on that forum apparently.

May as well not have a thread on the potential investment then. As it's all politics.

[Puja]

My post has since been deleted by the mods.

Puja

Ha. Superb.

The washing begins with the offie

I am told that "This is a sports forum focussed on rugby and the game and it has happened in former topics where politics has just caused real anger / bitterness amongst the users and has totally taken away from the discussion."

How exactly you are supposed to discuss a potential sportswashing investment into a club without discussing the sportswashing is entirely beyond me. I recognise that they may not want to have politics arguments on there, but if that's their position, it shouldn't be an allowed topic at all. As it is, they're deleting posts critical of SIF investment, meaning that all that is left is a cavalcade of "Sure, why nots" which makes me wonder how many other people banged their heads against the same wall before me.

I pointed this out to the mod, but the response was, "This is a very current topic and we do not want to prevent discussions from a sporting perspective," so I've given up with a shrug.

I'd assumed it was the UnOffie

Nope.

Puja

[Margin_Walker]

How exactly you are supposed to discuss a potential sportswashing investment into a club without discussing the sportswashing is entirely beyond me. I recognise that they may not want to have politics arguments on there, but if that's their position, it shouldn't be an allowed topic at all. As it is, they're deleting posts critical of SIF investment, meaning that all that is left is a cavalcade of "Sure, why nots" which makes me wonder how many other people banged their heads against the same wall before me.


Puja

Precisely. As above, you might as well not have a thread about it. There is no way to properly discuss this potential investment without exploring sportswashing/politics

[Danno]

Haha, wow. Mods shilling for the House of Saud already. You could get rich in a few clicks Puja!

[Puja]

Haha, wow. Mods shilling for the House of Saud already. You could get rich in a few clicks Puja!

As it turns out, this whole thread is now declared too political and will be deleted the second the cheque clears.

Puja

[p/d]

Absolutely shocking!!! And there was me thinking Puja saved all his rugby wisdom for RR.

[FKAS]

Just been onto the Leicester messageboard to try and rabble rouse for a pushback to this and was appalled to see a large number of "Weeeeeell, I'm sure it wouldn't be too bad and we do need the funding."

Ah yes the "as long as we don't have to see the bad stuff" or the "ignorance is bliss" approach.

The media in this country and our own government (all three parties) have long since turned a blind eye to the crimes in the oil states because they wanted access to the financial resources from said oil. The attitude has generally then been adopted by the populace, only helped by the investment in various football clubs etc.

That’s a quick u-turn from this:

‘If Saudi Arabia want to spend multiple million rebadging Mattioli Woods Welford Road to Visit Saudi Arabia Welford Road I'm not that fussed’.

The more I think about it the more uncomfortable I become by the idea of having Saudi money involved. I could maybe live with a sponsorship arrangement the idea of them having joint ownership in the club would make me very uneasy.

[Margin_Walker]

I guess fans from those clubs will probably need to get comfortable with the adverse PR if this were to happen (and tbf all we have is the DT report so far).

All four are pretty controversy free, proper rugby clubs and pretty hard to dislike. That would probably end with something like this. There would be a price to hitching themselves to the PIF wagon, regardless of how keenly the investment is needed. It will absolutely colour how a decent proportion of the rugby watching public see and interact with those clubs.

[Timbo]

10% or so of four clubs doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. Buying a club outright, particularly Falcons, I could understand. What do they get for their investment? Financially rugby won’t even touch the sides for PIF & ‘sportswashing’ only works if you’re percieved to be front & centre in something positive, not a minority investor.

[Which Tyler]

10% or so of four clubs doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. Buying a club outright, particularly Falcons, I could understand. What do they get for their investment? Financially rugby won’t even touch the sides for PIF & ‘sportswashing’ only works if you’re percieved to be front & centre in something positive, not a minority investor.

Dip a toe in to see if you like the water?
Though quite honestly, rugby is such a small sport, they could outright buy a club, and lose more down the back of sofa that day