Ireland squad v South Africa

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Ireland squad

Forwards: Finlay Bealham (Connacht), Rory Best (Ulster), Sean Cronin (Leinster), Ultan Dillane (Connacht), Tadgh Furlong (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster), Iain Henderson (Ulster), David Kilcoyne (Munster), Jack McGrath (Leinster), Jordi Murphy (Leinster), Sean Reidy (Ulster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Quinn Roux (Connacht), Rhys Ruddock (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), CJ Stander (Munster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Devin Toner (Leinster)

Backs: Keith Earls (Munster), Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht), Paddy Jackson (Ulster), David Kearney (Leinster), Rob Kearney (Leinster), Kieran Marmion (Connacht), Luke Marshall (Ulster), Conor Murray (Munster), Stuart Olding (Ulster), Jared Payne (Ulster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Johnny Sexton (Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ulster).

Interesting squad but I'd have liked to see at least one of the Connacht turos in the back line. Olding deserves his spot and for all that McCloskey could become an excellent player I'm perfectly happy to see superior distribution there instead with Olding and Marshall.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

I never thought I'd see the day when Munster contribute that few players to an Ireland squad. Pleased Connacht are getting more recognition.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I never thought I'd see the day when Munster contribute that few players to an Ireland squad. Pleased Connacht are getting more recognition.

3 forwards and 2 backs and I'd argue at least one of those is quite lucky. Things change.

[BBD]

I'd say it was an accurate picture of where we are right now,

Lots of heart, pride and effort, but there is a dearth of real top drawer talent in the squad with a few notable exceptions

[Spiffy]

I'd say it was an accurate picture of where we are right now,

Lots of heart, pride and effort, but there is a dearth of real top drawer talent in the squad with a few notable exceptions

I think you're a tad hard on Connacht there BBD. Several players have been playing at a high level all year. That's why they are in the final . Based on recent/current form of players from both teams in tomorrow's final :

O'Halloran is a better FB than R. Kearney.
Healy/Adeolokun are better wings than D. Kearney.
Aki is the best 12 in Ireland and forms a powerful midfield with Henshaw beside him.
Marmion is a better SH than Reddan
McCartney is a better Hooker than Cronin/Strauss (especially at throwing).
Dillane/Muldowney are at least as good as their Leinster counterparts (probably a little better in the absence of Toner - who will be missed).
Muldoon, McKeon and Heenan are a great backrow unit and as least as effective as Heaslip/Ruddock/J. Murphy. The latter pair have been nothing special at all and are lucky to be in the Ireland squad.

This does not mean I think Connacht are favourites, since Sexton is still a potential match winner in any game he plays.

I do think Healy, Muldowney and Muldoon should have been in the SA squad on sustained form this season. I don't think age has anything to do with, since both Ross and Ryan are in the tour party.

If the Connact backs get reasonable ball they could well nick the final. I believe the odds are currently 2/1 against. Hope we see a good game of rugby, but I'm expecting Leinster to play it tight.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I'd say it was an accurate picture of where we are right now,

Lots of heart, pride and effort, but there is a dearth of real top drawer talent in the squad with a few notable exceptions

I think you're a tad hard on Connacht there BBD. Several players have been playing at a high level all year. That's why they are in the final . Based on recent/current form of players from both teams in tomorrow's final :

O'Halloran is a better FB than R. Kearney.
Healy/Adeolokun are better wings than D. Kearney.
Aki is the best 12 in Ireland and forms a powerful midfield with Henshaw beside him.
Marmion is a better SH than Reddan
McCartney is a better Hooker than Cronin/Strauss (especially at throwing).
Dillane/Muldowney are at least as good as their Leinster counterparts (probably a little better in the absence of Toner - who will be missed).
Muldoon, McKeon and Heenan are a great backrow unit and as least as effective as Heaslip/Ruddock/J. Murphy. The latter pair have been nothing special at all and are lucky to be in the Ireland squad.

This does not mean I think Connacht are favourites, since Sexton is still a potential match winner in any game he plays.

I do think Healy, Muldowney and Muldoon should have been in the SA squad on sustained form this season. I don't think age has anything to do with, since both Ross and Ryan are in the tour party.

If the Connact backs get reasonable ball they could well nick the final. I believe the odds are currently 2/1 against. Hope we see a good game of rugby, but I'm expecting Leinster to play it tight.

He didn't mention Connacht. I presume he was talking about Munster, since he's a Munster fan and the preceding 2 posts were about Munsters decline.

ETA, I'm not sure what the likes of Aki or McCartney have to do with a discussion about the Ireland squad yet.

[Spiffy]

I'd say it was an accurate picture of where we are right now,

Lots of heart, pride and effort, but there is a dearth of real top drawer talent in the squad with a few notable exceptions

I think you're a tad hard on Connacht there BBD. Several players have been playing at a high level all year. That's why they are in the final . Based on recent/current form of players from both teams in tomorrow's final :

O'Halloran is a better FB than R. Kearney.
Healy/Adeolokun are better wings than D. Kearney.
Aki is the best 12 in Ireland and forms a powerful midfield with Henshaw beside him.
Marmion is a better SH than Reddan
McCartney is a better Hooker than Cronin/Strauss (especially at throwing).
Dillane/Muldowney are at least as good as their Leinster counterparts (probably a little better in the absence of Toner - who will be missed).
Muldoon, McKeon and Heenan are a great backrow unit and as least as effective as Heaslip/Ruddock/J. Murphy. The latter pair have been nothing special at all and are lucky to be in the Ireland squad.

This does not mean I think Connacht are favourites, since Sexton is still a potential match winner in any game he plays.

I do think Healy, Muldowney and Muldoon should have been in the SA squad on sustained form this season. I don't think age has anything to do with, since both Ross and Ryan are in the tour party.

If the Connact backs get reasonable ball they could well nick the final. I believe the odds are currently 2/1 against. Hope we see a good game of rugby, but I'm expecting Leinster to play it tight.

He didn't mention Connacht. I presume he was talking about Munster, since he's a Munster fan and the preceding 2 posts were about Munsters decline.

ETA, I'm not sure what the likes of Aki or McCartney have to do with a discussion about the Ireland squad yet.

Yes. My mistake. Misread a post that I thought was refering to Connacht, not Munster. Just ignore my abject drivel.

[Peat]

Did anyone else even half-think about Sean Reidy getting an Ireland cap? Because I didn't.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Did anyone else even half-think about Sean Reidy getting an Ireland cap? Because I didn't.

He's been pretty good towards the end of the season but no. Not even slightly. The back row selections are a bit weird to be honest, but I think that's due to injury. Not sure if TOD is injured but here's some of the injury list:
Players unavailable for selection include Cian Healy, Denis Buckley, Nathan White, Josh van der Flier, Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Tommy Bowe, Andrew Conway and Simon Zebo.

[Peat]

O'Donnell is meant to have his wedding on the same day as the last match and asked not to be included. Which is bloody weird if true.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

O'Donnell is meant to have his wedding on the same day as the last match and asked not to be included. Which is bloody weird if true.

You can definitely choose which day to get married. How unreasonable does your partner have to be to make it when you should be touring South Africa?!

With him out have we actually selected everyone available who isn't from Connacht?

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Fitzgerald injured (for a change) and replaced by Healy. Actually much as I think Healy is excellent and exposed Dave Kearner for the trundler he is, I think O'Halloran might just be the better bet at Test level.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Dom is an aul gob-shyte!

Munster have been fecking awesome all season and its a fecking disgrace that all 20 of our front row forwards aren't included in this so-called 'squad'. Frankly Jimmy Cronin played so consistently brilliantly he should have been selected twice and taken Mushy Buckle and James Downey along as his bag carriers.

Its like being back in the fecking 70s when being from Munster meant ye had to give up the Flying Column and swear allegiance to some fecking king prawn cocktail noshing stuffed shirt just to get a look in.

And there's Tommy breaking hearts all the way from Dingle to Horse and Jockey (And all points in between) and the c*nts can't even shift the tour a few weeks to give the lad a start?

Bastards, is what they are and I hope the Zulus kick the ballix off 'em!

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Dom is an aul gob-shyte!

Munster have been fecking awesome all season and its a fecking disgrace that all 20 of our front row forwards aren't included in this so-called 'squad'. Frankly Jimmy Cronin played so consistently brilliantly he should have been selected twice and taken Mushy Buckle and James Downey along as his bag carriers.

Its like being back in the fecking 70s when being from Munster meant ye had to give up the Flying Column and swear allegiance to some fecking king prawn cocktail noshing stuffed shirt just to get a look in.

And there's Tommy breaking hearts all the way from Dingle to Horse and Jockey (And all points in between) and the c*nts can't even shift the tour a few weeks to give the lad a start?

Bastards, is what they are and I hope the Zulus kick the ballix off 'em!

Ach away ahn ye ballix. Any of your decent players, if yis had any, shoulda headed north.

[Spiffy]

Dom is an aul gob-shyte!

Munster have been fecking awesome all season and its a fecking disgrace that all 20 of our front row forwards aren't included in this so-called 'squad'. Frankly Jimmy Cronin played so consistently brilliantly he should have been selected twice and taken Mushy Buckle and James Downey along as his bag carriers.

Its like being back in the fecking 70s when being from Munster meant ye had to give up the Flying Column and swear allegiance to some fecking king prawn cocktail noshing stuffed shirt just to get a look in.

And there's Tommy breaking hearts all the way from Dingle to Horse and Jockey (And all points in between) and the c*nts can't even shift the tour a few weeks to give the lad a start?

Bastards, is what they are and I hope the Zulus kick the ballix off 'em!

They will.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Ach away ahn ye ballix. Any of your decent players, if yis had any, shoulda headed north.

What!? To Rathcabbin? No one goes that far north.

[Banquo]

Kearney x 2, Sexton out crocked

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Latest squad:

Ireland squad

Forwards: Finlay Bealham (Connacht), Rory Best (Ulster), Sean Cronin (Leinster), Ultan Dillane (Connacht), Tadgh Furlong (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster), Iain Henderson (Ulster), David Kilcoyne (Munster), Jack McGrath (Leinster), Jordi Murphy (Leinster), Sean Reidy (Ulster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Quinn Roux (Connacht), Rhys Ruddock (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), CJ Stander (Munster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Devin Toner (Leinster).

Backs: Keith Earls (Munster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht), Paddy Jackson (Ulster), Matt Healy (Connacht), Tiernan O'Halloran (Connacht), Ian Madigan (Bordeaux), Craig Gilroy (Ulster), Kieran Marmion (Connacht), Luke Marshall (Ulster), Conor Murray (Munster), Stuart Olding (Ulster), Jared Payne (Ulster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ulster).

Our injury rate is pretty horrible now, although if we had to lose anyone at all david Kearney would be the man I'd pick.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Team out of that lot?

1. Jack McGrath - comfortably the best we have now, particularly given Healy's not been right since injury
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross - for solidity inthe scrum. I'd be looking to take him off at no later than 50.
4. Ultan Dillane - he puts himself about which we're definitely going to need
5. Dev Toner - we'll need his experience and need him to be at his very best
6. Hendo - We need ball carrying in the back row and with it stripped of most of the talent through injury we don't have much choice.
7. Stander - doesn't play 7 much any more but I just can't see us starting Reidy. Be useful if he knows any afrikaans as well
8. Heaslip - Mr Reliable
9. Murray - with orders not to kick the fecker away every time
10. Das Foal - cometh the hour, cometh the relative of horse
11. the stars in the bright sky looked down where HEALY, HEALY! I toyed with TOH but Healy deserves it every bit as much and TOH hasn't played wing for a wee while.
12. Henshaw
13. Marshall
14. Trimble
15. Payne

16. Cronin - just such a great impact sub.
17. Killer - deserves his break. Don't know who he pissed off at ireland and then Munster to get dropped down the pecking order but he deserves to be back
18. Tadgh Furlong - coming on nicely but should have moved to Ulster about 3 years ago t get more game time
19. Ryan - be good to have his aggression
20. Reidy - last openside type standing apart from Murphy and Jordi is Jordi
21. Marmion - there comes a point when you don't just pick experience for the sake of it. Marmion has had a fine season and can play tempo at least as well as Reddan
22. Olding - every bit as versatile as Madigan, though lacking in experience at 10
23 TOH - for shits and giggles. great counter-attacker. If we have to go down (and we will) then lets go down swinging.

[Spiffy]

Team out of that lot?

1. Jack McGrath - comfortably the best we have now, particularly given Healy's not been right since injury
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross - for solidity inthe scrum. I'd be looking to take him off at no later than 50.
4. Ultan Dillane - he puts himself about which we're definitely going to need
5. Dev Toner - we'll need his experience and need him to be at his very best
6. Hendo - We need ball carrying in the back row and with it stripped of most of the talent through injury we don't have much choice.
7. Stander - doesn't play 7 much any more but I just can't see us starting Reidy. Be useful if he knows any afrikaans as well
8. Heaslip - Mr Reliable
9. Murray - with orders not to kick the fecker away every time
10. Das Foal - cometh the hour, cometh the relative of horse
11. the stars in the bright sky looked down where HEALY, HEALY! I toyed with TOH but Healy deserves it every bit as much and TOH hasn't played wing for a wee while.
12. Henshaw
13. Marshall
14. Trimble
15. Payne

16. Cronin - just such a great impact sub.
17. Killer - deserves his break. Don't know who he pissed off at ireland and then Munster to get dropped down the pecking order but he deserves to be back
18. Tadgh Furlong - coming on nicely but should have moved to Ulster about 3 years ago t get more game time
19. Ryan - be good to have his aggression
20. Reidy - last openside type standing apart from Murphy and Jordi is Jordi
21. Marmion - there comes a point when you don't just pick experience for the sake of it. Marmion has had a fine season and can play tempo at least as well as Reddan
22. Olding - every bit as versatile as Madigan, though lacking in experience at 10
23 TOH - for shits and giggles. great counter-attacker. If we have to go down (and we will) then lets go down swinging.

Yes. I'd go for something like that. But I think Bealham will be in with a shout to start at TH. Fibber Joe seem determined not to play Payne at 15 and has been making noises about Henshaw dropping back to FB. At some point I'd like to see Olding (12) Henshaw (13) in midfield. I just hope the wildly overrated Madigan does not start at 10 or 15. Also, Joe will start Earls on the wing if fit - probably Ireland's bet all round wing now that he has added an agressive tackling game to his natural attacking instincts. I would pick him over Healy but would like to see Healy get a run in a game or two.

[Stom]

I know Kearney D is out now, but what is the point of Rhys Ruddock? I can't think of anything I've ever seen him do...

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I know Kearney D is out now, but what is the point of Rhys Ruddock? I can't think of anything I've ever seen him do...

He's basically our Robshaw - though quicker and better in the line out. He makes his tackles and is decent over the ball and doesn't make mistakes.

[Spiffy]

I know Kearney D is out now, but what is the point of Rhys Ruddock? I can't think of anything I've ever seen him do...

He was great against NZ in Dublin two years ago when he was press ganged into 7 when someone withdrew. He's big and tough but has not kicked on they way you would have predicted. I'd rather see John Muldoon on tour - the kind of bloke who would die for the team, has outstanding leadership qualities and is a smart rugby player.

[Peat]

Think there was a game against Argentina where Ruddock looked ridiculously physical - overshadowed Henderson tbh. Then I never saw him do much like that again, but was decent against SA at 7 last time he played too.

Think he's turning into a military medium international back row tbh.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Think there was a game against Argentina where Ruddock looked ridiculously physical - overshadowed Henderson tbh. Then I never saw him do much like that again, but was decent against SA at 7 last time he played too.

Think he's turning into a military medium international back row tbh.

Yep. Which is not nothing when you have the carnage of injuries (and weddings!) that we have.