The Great Big England A Thread

[Puja]

Since I couldn't find the other one (the board's search mechanism is rubbish), here's a new one.

O'Shea talking up the concept of the "Rugby Weekend" and the import of England A to the pipeline: https://www.planetrugby.com/news/conor- ... nd-concept

Also teases that there's an undecided third A fixture to come this season - Aus A in the AIs, Ireland A in the 6N and TBC just before the summer tour to the Americas. Could be a lean selection, considering the main England will already be missing all the Lions tourists.

I have to say, I like the philosophy of using it to develop clusters of players who've come through the U20s, rather than the old designs of giving the likes of Ludlow and Chick a day out in an England shirt. Not a true 2nd XV, but a development XV.

I also like the idea of them rotating the coaching staff and getting experience into up-and-coming English coaches, although that's possibly as much to do with them not defaulting to Skivington again.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Just received an email advertising tickets to the Aus A match at £25 for adults and £15 for u16s. Bargain. Are they struggling to sell?

[FKAS]

Just received an email advertising tickets to the Aus A match at £25 for adults and £15 for u16s. Bargain. Are they struggling to sell?

I'd hope that they are trying to reach fans who would ordinarily be able to afford England tickets. Make the game accessible and get a big crowd in.

[Puja]

Just received an email advertising tickets to the Aus A match at £25 for adults and £15 for u16s. Bargain. Are they struggling to sell?

That sounds like par for the course for an A game - it's not a massive draw and they'll want a decent crowd.

Puja

[Puja]

Coaching team named: https://www.premiershiprugby.com/conten ... ng-line-up

Mark Mapletoft – Head Coach
Andy Titterrell – Forwards Coach
Nathan Catt – Scrum Coach
Lee Blackett – Attack Coach
Haydn Thomas – Defence Coach

Really quite happy with that lineup. Mapletoft getting a promotion from the U20s makes sense, especially since (hopefully) it's going to contain a large chunk of the last 2-3 years of U20s, Catt and Titterell make sense on the same criteria, and Blackett's one of the best coaches in the Prem to my mind. I know very little about Haydn Thomas though, although with him being Exeter and them liking a blitz, hopefully he'll be able to adopt the same defensive system as the senior team.

The Ireland game is confirmed at being in Bristol as well, which I hadn't heard before. Good choice - should hopefully draw a decent crowd.

Puja

[FKAS]

I like the fact they are changing round the coaching setup each time. Good way to monitor and assist the development of English based coaches.

[fivepointer]

Seems like a good collection of up and coming coaches. It will change for Ireland as Mapletoft will be back with the u20s.

Too early to speculate who might play in the Australia game?

[Puja]

Seems like a good collection of up and coming coaches. It will change for Ireland as Mapletoft will be back with the u20s.

Too early to speculate who might play in the Australia game?

Definitely not!

Puja

[Puja]

While looking at something else, came across this Charlie Morgan thread on Haydn Thomas which gave a chunk more info - hadn't realised he was an U20s as well.



Puja

[Puja]

Now we know the England squad, who's playing for England A? I would be in favour of picking young players rather than giving Langdon and Heyes an A cap that they're not drastically going to learn much from.

I'd have:
Obano (c)
Jibulu
AOF/Fasogbon
Tuima
Munga
Hill
Pepper
TWillis/Fisilau (TWillis being more deserving, but Fisilau maybe more likely to get something out of the experience?)

Porter
Burke (if for no other reason than to upset the Scots and stop them from picking him)

Murley
SAtkinson/Anyanwu/Butt/Woodward
Beard (or shift one of the 12s outwards)
Elliott

Carpenter


I've probably missed some obvious names which you can all mock me for.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Pre-emptively taking the moral high ground on poaching Burke is pretty funny, I'll give you that. I didn't even realise he was Scottish qualified.

I like the look of that team. Is Munga a real contender or just the next competent lock available?

I really hope Porter continues to kick on. I think it might actually work well for him flying a bit under the radar - being in Care's shadow. I'd have him ahead of Spencer or Randall but there's no rush.

[FKAS]

I'd be tempted to have Barton at 15. He's been playing very well since moving to 15 and would then allow the A side to have that playmaking attacker from 15 like the senior side has with Furbank.

No Dan Kelly in the midfield? He needs another cap to keep him away from the Irish.

[Scrumhead]

I quite like Puja’s side. I’d go with the following:

1. Obano / Iyogun
2. Jibulu / Blake
3. Opoku-Fordjour / Fasogbon
4. Clark / Bamber
5. Tuima / Tizard
6. Kenningham / Fisilau*
7. Pepper / Pollock
8. Willis (Capt) / Barbeary
9. Porter / McParland
10. Barton / C. Atkinson
11. Murley / Hassell-Collins
12. S. Atkinson / Anyanwu
13. Beard / Butt
14. Elliott / Brown-Bampoe
15. Carpenter / Redshaw

The likes of Ted Hill, Will Evans and Tom de Glanville can feel extremely hard done by but I’m not sure they have a realistic chance of making it now. Mark Wilson says otherwise I suppose …

*Yes, I know he mostly packs down at 8

If we’re looking at this as a pathway side, I wouldn’t be totally surprised (or disappointed) to see Joe Woodward or Joe Bailey.

[Banquo]

I quite like Puja’s side. I’d go with the following:

1. Obano / Iyogun
2. Jibulu / Blake
3. Opoku-Fordjour / Fasogbon
4. Clark / Bamber
5. Tuima / Tizard
6. Kenningham / Fisilau*
7. Pepper / Pollock
8. Willis (Capt) / Barbeary
9. Porter / McParland
10. Barton / C. Atkinson
11. Murley / Hassell-Collins
12. S. Atkinson / Anyanwu
13. Beard / Butt
14. Elliott / Brown-Bampoe
15. Carpenter / Redshaw

The likes of Ted Hill, Will Evans and Tom de Glanville can feel extremely hard done by but I’m not sure they have a realistic chance of making it now. Mark Wilson says otherwise I suppose …

*Yes, I know he mostly packs down at 8

If we’re looking at this as a pathway side, I wouldn’t be totally surprised (or disappointed) to see Joe Woodward or Joe Bailey.

Ted Hill is 8 months older than Kenningham. Different players, both with a point of difference, but Ted Hill is bloody unlucky not to be in the senior squad.

Is Joe Batley in the senior squad? Ibitoye ahead of OHC surely?

[Scrumhead]

I quite like Puja’s side. I’d go with the following:

1. Obano / Iyogun
2. Jibulu / Blake
3. Opoku-Fordjour / Fasogbon
4. Clark / Bamber
5. Tuima / Tizard
6. Kenningham / Fisilau*
7. Pepper / Pollock
8. Willis (Capt) / Barbeary
9. Porter / McParland
10. Barton / C. Atkinson
11. Murley / Hassell-Collins
12. S. Atkinson / Anyanwu
13. Beard / Butt
14. Elliott / Brown-Bampoe
15. Carpenter / Redshaw

The likes of Ted Hill, Will Evans and Tom de Glanville can feel extremely hard done by but I’m not sure they have a realistic chance of making it now. Mark Wilson says otherwise I suppose …

*Yes, I know he mostly packs down at 8

If we’re looking at this as a pathway side, I wouldn’t be totally surprised (or disappointed) to see Joe Woodward or Joe Bailey.

Ted Hill is 8 months older than Kenningham. Different players, both with a point of difference, but Ted Hill is bloody unlucky not to be in the senior squad.

Is Joe Batley in the senior squad? Ibitoye ahead of OHC surely?

I’m a big fan of Ted Hill’s. I just think that he’s a known quantity who is for whatever reason not rated sufficiently highly to make the test squad. Same for Will Evans. Kenningham just feels a bit different given he’s missed more or less two full seasons of rugby. It’s almost like having a new player to consider.

100% agree Batley should get a shot with the seniors. He’s been good for a while now and is outplaying pretty much every other lock in the league this season.

Ibitoye going forward is excellent. Positionally and defensively he’s poor which are big marks against him as far as test rugby goes I think. If we played like Fiji, he’d maybe even be starting but we don’t …

[Banquo]

I quite like Puja’s side. I’d go with the following:

1. Obano / Iyogun
2. Jibulu / Blake
3. Opoku-Fordjour / Fasogbon
4. Clark / Bamber
5. Tuima / Tizard
6. Kenningham / Fisilau*
7. Pepper / Pollock
8. Willis (Capt) / Barbeary
9. Porter / McParland
10. Barton / C. Atkinson
11. Murley / Hassell-Collins
12. S. Atkinson / Anyanwu
13. Beard / Butt
14. Elliott / Brown-Bampoe
15. Carpenter / Redshaw

The likes of Ted Hill, Will Evans and Tom de Glanville can feel extremely hard done by but I’m not sure they have a realistic chance of making it now. Mark Wilson says otherwise I suppose …

*Yes, I know he mostly packs down at 8

If we’re looking at this as a pathway side, I wouldn’t be totally surprised (or disappointed) to see Joe Woodward or Joe Bailey.

Ted Hill is 8 months older than Kenningham. Different players, both with a point of difference, but Ted Hill is bloody unlucky not to be in the senior squad.

Is Joe Batley in the senior squad? Ibitoye ahead of OHC surely?

I’m a big fan of Ted Hill’s. I just think that he’s a known quantity who is for whatever reason not rated sufficiently highly to make the test squad. Same for Will Evans. Kenningham just feels a bit different given he’s missed more or less two full seasons of rugby. It’s almost like having a new player to consider.

100% agree Batley should get a shot with the seniors. He’s been good for a while now and is outplaying pretty much every other lock in the league this season.

Ibitoye going forward is excellent. Positionally and defensively he’s poor which are big marks against him as far as test rugby goes I think. If we played like Fiji, he’d maybe even be starting but we don’t …

Ted Hill also missed a lot of rugby, but he's the business now. Amazed he doesn't fit Borthwick's view.

Can always work with a wingers defence; bloody frustrates me when any professional player doesn't improve noticeably weak elements. Only thing you can't cure is lack of bottle- coaches and player should be ashamed. Anyway, OHC is hardly defender/concentrator par excellence.

[Puja]

Pre-emptively taking the moral high ground on poaching Burke is pretty funny, I'll give you that. I didn't even realise he was Scottish qualified.

I like the look of that team. Is Munga a real contender or just the next competent lock available?

I really hope Porter continues to kick on. I think it might actually work well for him flying a bit under the radar - being in Care's shadow. I'd have him ahead of Spencer or Randall but there's no rush.

Munga this season has finally looked like the player that people were talking about a few seasons back. He's inked his place in Northampton's starting lineup and has been consistently effective. Whether that translates to him being a potential international, I don't know, but I'm certainly more interested in his development off the back of his recent performances. Batley is a good shout though.

On Burke, I don't see him ever properly playing for England, but we've not got anyone else really right now (Harvey Skinner erasure). He'd probably get more caps for Scotland, but he doesn't look like he's going to trouble either nation's starting XV so far.

I'd be tempted to have Barton at 15. He's been playing very well since moving to 15 and would then allow the A side to have that playmaking attacker from 15 like the senior side has with Furbank.

No Dan Kelly in the midfield? He needs another cap to keep him away from the Irish.

Barton's a reasonable shout. Can't really say Kelly deserves a cap right now and I'm not sure the Irish will be tripping over themselves to cap him.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Ted Hill is 8 months older than Kenningham. Different players, both with a point of difference, but Ted Hill is bloody unlucky not to be in the senior squad.

Is Joe Batley in the senior squad? Ibitoye ahead of OHC surely?

I’m a big fan of Ted Hill’s. I just think that he’s a known quantity who is for whatever reason not rated sufficiently highly to make the test squad. Same for Will Evans. Kenningham just feels a bit different given he’s missed more or less two full seasons of rugby. It’s almost like having a new player to consider.

100% agree Batley should get a shot with the seniors. He’s been good for a while now and is outplaying pretty much every other lock in the league this season.

Ibitoye going forward is excellent. Positionally and defensively he’s poor which are big marks against him as far as test rugby goes I think. If we played like Fiji, he’d maybe even be starting but we don’t …

Ted Hill also missed a lot of rugby, but he's the business now. Amazed he doesn't fit Borthwick's view.

Can always work with a wingers defence; bloody frustrates me when any professional player doesn't improve noticeably weak elements. Only thing you can't cure is lack of bottle- coaches and player should be ashamed. Anyway, OHC is hardly defender/concentrator par excellence.

.

Fair enough. I don’t really think it actually matters given both would be well down the pecking order.

I expect the likes of Elliott, Cleaves and the lads from the U20 RWC winning side to keep he, further down the list too

[FKAS]

I doubt the Irish will be tripping over themselves to cap him but the IRFU might make promises and pretend to show interest in order to get him over to Ireland next summer. He's shown better form this season though he's not really setting the world alight.

[Scrumhead]

Pre-emptively taking the moral high ground on poaching Burke is pretty funny, I'll give you that. I didn't even realise he was Scottish qualified.

I like the look of that team. Is Munga a real contender or just the next competent lock available?

I really hope Porter continues to kick on. I think it might actually work well for him flying a bit under the radar - being in Care's shadow. I'd have him ahead of Spencer or Randall but there's no rush.

Munga this season has finally looked like the player that people were talking about a few seasons back. He's inked his place in Northampton's starting lineup and has been consistently effective. Whether that translates to him being a potential international, I don't know, but I'm certainly more interested in his development off the back of his recent performances. Batley is a good shout though.

On Burke, I don't see him ever properly playing for England, but we've not got anyone else really right now (Harvey Skinner erasure). He'd probably get more caps for Scotland, but he doesn't look like he's going to trouble either nation's starting XV so far.

I'd be tempted to have Barton at 15. He's been playing very well since moving to 15 and would then allow the A side to have that playmaking attacker from 15 like the senior side has with Furbank.

No Dan Kelly in the midfield? He needs another cap to keep him away from the Irish.

Barton's a reasonable shout. Can't really say Kelly deserves a cap right now and I'm not sure the Irish will be tripping over themselves to cap him.

Puja

Possibly a touch harsh on Burke given how well he seems to have settled in to the Saracens side. That said, not kicking most likely counts against him.

My main aversion is capturing a player just because we can. I don’t ever see Burke surpassing the Smiths and we have age grade 10s who are very highly rated who should be coming through for the next cycle.

[Puja]

Pre-emptively taking the moral high ground on poaching Burke is pretty funny, I'll give you that. I didn't even realise he was Scottish qualified.

I like the look of that team. Is Munga a real contender or just the next competent lock available?

I really hope Porter continues to kick on. I think it might actually work well for him flying a bit under the radar - being in Care's shadow. I'd have him ahead of Spencer or Randall but there's no rush.

Munga this season has finally looked like the player that people were talking about a few seasons back. He's inked his place in Northampton's starting lineup and has been consistently effective. Whether that translates to him being a potential international, I don't know, but I'm certainly more interested in his development off the back of his recent performances. Batley is a good shout though.

On Burke, I don't see him ever properly playing for England, but we've not got anyone else really right now (Harvey Skinner erasure). He'd probably get more caps for Scotland, but he doesn't look like he's going to trouble either nation's starting XV so far.

I'd be tempted to have Barton at 15. He's been playing very well since moving to 15 and would then allow the A side to have that playmaking attacker from 15 like the senior side has with Furbank.

No Dan Kelly in the midfield? He needs another cap to keep him away from the Irish.

Barton's a reasonable shout. Can't really say Kelly deserves a cap right now and I'm not sure the Irish will be tripping over themselves to cap him.

Puja

Possibly a touch harsh on Burke given how well he seems to have settled in to the Saracens side. That said, not kicking most likely counts against him.

My main aversion is capturing a player just because we can. I don’t ever see Burke surpassing the Smiths and we have age grade 10s who are very highly rated who should be coming through for the next cycle.

There's a gap for the next age-grade 10s, isn't there? Linegar's the next one coming through IIRC, so we've got another 4 seasons before he's 22 (and that's assuming he develops as we hope he will). That means we've got three fly-halves, with one being 31 and injury-prone - it's not out of the question that someone like Burke could get 5-10 caps as our fourth 10 and, if we don't use him, our other options for the next few years are praying CAtkinson makes it into the Gloucester 1st XV or Harvey Skinner.

I'm not fervent about picking him or anything, but it's not **entirely** about annoying the Scots.

Just a reasonable chunk of it is.

Puja

[FKAS]

Munga this season has finally looked like the player that people were talking about a few seasons back. He's inked his place in Northampton's starting lineup and has been consistently effective. Whether that translates to him being a potential international, I don't know, but I'm certainly more interested in his development off the back of his recent performances. Batley is a good shout though.

On Burke, I don't see him ever properly playing for England, but we've not got anyone else really right now (Harvey Skinner erasure). He'd probably get more caps for Scotland, but he doesn't look like he's going to trouble either nation's starting XV so far.



Barton's a reasonable shout. Can't really say Kelly deserves a cap right now and I'm not sure the Irish will be tripping over themselves to cap him.

Puja

Possibly a touch harsh on Burke given how well he seems to have settled in to the Saracens side. That said, not kicking most likely counts against him.

My main aversion is capturing a player just because we can. I don’t ever see Burke surpassing the Smiths and we have age grade 10s who are very highly rated who should be coming through for the next cycle.

There's a gap for the next age-grade 10s, isn't there? Linegar's the next one coming through IIRC, so we've got another 4 seasons before he's 22 (and that's assuming he develops as we hope he will). That means we've got three fly-halves, with one being 31 and injury-prone - it's not out of the question that someone like Burke could get 5-10 caps as our fourth 10 and, if we don't use him, our other options for the next few years are praying CAtkinson makes it into the Gloucester 1st XV or Harvey Skinner.

I'm not fervent about picking him or anything, but it's not **entirely** about annoying the Scots.

Just a reasonable chunk of it is.

Puja

Orlando Bailey? I'd have him over Charlie Atkinson and Harvey Skinner. Sarries also have Louie Johnson who's got bags of potential.

I'd still cap Burke at A level just in case he kicks on and becomes a serious talent. Let's pop a A team cap on him and baggsy him for three years just in case. It's not like he's going to overtake Fin Russell for Scotland.

[Banquo]

I’m a big fan of Ted Hill’s. I just think that he’s a known quantity who is for whatever reason not rated sufficiently highly to make the test squad. Same for Will Evans. Kenningham just feels a bit different given he’s missed more or less two full seasons of rugby. It’s almost like having a new player to consider.

100% agree Batley should get a shot with the seniors. He’s been good for a while now and is outplaying pretty much every other lock in the league this season.

Ibitoye going forward is excellent. Positionally and defensively he’s poor which are big marks against him as far as test rugby goes I think. If we played like Fiji, he’d maybe even be starting but we don’t …

Ted Hill also missed a lot of rugby, but he's the business now. Amazed he doesn't fit Borthwick's view.

Can always work with a wingers defence; bloody frustrates me when any professional player doesn't improve noticeably weak elements. Only thing you can't cure is lack of bottle- coaches and player should be ashamed. Anyway, OHC is hardly defender/concentrator par excellence.

.

Fair enough. I don’t really think it actually matters given both would be well down the pecking order.

I expect the likes of Elliott, Cleaves and the lads from the U20 RWC winning side to keep he, further down the list too

Kind of matters in terms of England A being a defined dev pathway- but you are right that neither may be a contender anyway. That said, have to trust conversion from junior intl to top prem players continues to strengthen

[Epaminondas Pules]

Ollie Davies is the next fly half of note out of age grade. He’s in his first season of senior rugby. Linegar is next and still at school.

Burke to me looks very average at the moment. Early days obvs.


And on overall squads etc…..#Justice4Pearson

[Captainhaircut]

Can we pick Kpoku?