Obesity as a disease

[Mellsblue]

I wouldnt like to speak for all the be-spandexed benefits blancmanges out there, but you're right that is more complex and I dont mean to be disingenuous... ultimately everyone has responsibility for their actions.

Maybe I'm just saying a little more understanding and a little less condemnation might help?

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Ridicule the fat fuckers till they change their diet and lifestyle. It worked on a prop I went to school with so I know it’s proven to work.

What position did you play Mells?

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I was an IC at the time. He was quite a gentle soul and, if he did anger, I could outrun him.

[Which Tyler]

I remember reading a few years ago about how much sugar there is in a bowl of cereal compared to the 80’s......cereals are banned from our house. I don’t know why we’ve allowed our food stock to deteriorate so badly and continue to do so, other than few sticking plasters. I know I’m a Tory c**t and most of you lot would never kiss me but one of the state’s central obligations is to keep us safe and healthy. Add that to efficiency of the public purse and they really dropped the (dough) ball on this one.

"Hidden calories" it's a real problem, in part down to education, in part due to poor regulation, and in part due tonit all being complicated (which is still educational).
People can try to be good, and eat salad (drowned in oil), more bread and cereal (packed full of calories that people don't know are there) and swap their burgers for chicken or fish (deep fried) etc etc. Doing this, they need to eat more to combat hunger (less protein, fewer expected calories, ever less time between urging it in the mouth and chemical/hormonal changes in the blood stream), and this attempted healthy diet adds MORE calories, due to simple misinformation.

[Mellsblue]

I remember reading a few years ago about how much sugar there is in a bowl of cereal compared to the 80’s......cereals are banned from our house. I don’t know why we’ve allowed our food stock to deteriorate so badly and continue to do so, other than few sticking plasters. I know I’m a Tory c**t and most of you lot would never kiss me but one of the state’s central obligations is to keep us safe and healthy. Add that to efficiency of the public purse and they really dropped the (dough) ball on this one.

"Hidden calories" it's a real problem, in part down to education, in part due to poor regulation, and in part due tonit all being complicated (which is still educational).
People can try to be good, and eat salad (drowned in oil), more bread and cereal (packed full of calories that people don't know are there) and swap their burgers for chicken or fish (deep fried) etc etc. Doing this, they need to eat more to combat hunger (less protein, fewer expected calories, ever less time between urging it in the mouth and chemical/hormonal changes in the blood stream), and this attempted healthy diet adds MORE calories, due to simple misinformation.

Education, along with regulation, is key. I once worked with a, erm, portly lady and she went on a health kick. Nothing to do with me being a horrible bully. A month later and she couldn’t understand why she wasn’t losing weight. I asked her to run through what she was doing. There was a moderate increase in exercise - 1hr of walking a day, up from sweet fa - and her staple evening meal was pasta bake as “pasta is healthy”......

[Which Tyler]

We evolved to move... constantly. To eat nutrient poor foods that require a lot of calories in order to absorb slightly more - nuts, root veg, uncooked meat, undomesticated fruit - stuff the requires work to acquire, and more work to break down (hunter gatherers spend something like 4-5 hours a day just chewing! - let along digging roots with nothing more than a sharp stick, climbing for crab apples, fishing ants out of holes etc).
How many hours of digging, hoeing, weeding, cutting, pounding does it take to make a handful of flour? Expending those calories releases far more calories than you'd get from simply eating the seeds, covered in fibre, which will pass straight on through, yielding next to no nutrients at all. We don't spend those calories, but we do get the calories + the added ones to make it "taste nicer"

We evolved for an excess of fibre and a shortage of sugar, fat and salt. So we crave sweet, fatty, salty foods, and find fibrous stuff boring. Our biology is "designed" to grab every molecule of sugar or fat it can find, but pass the fibre straight on through.

Education, along with regulation, is key. I once worked with a, erm, portly lady and she went on a health kick. Nothing to do with me being a horrible bully. A month later and she couldn’t understand why she wasn’t losing weight. I asked her to run through what she was doing. There was a moderate increase in exercise - 1hr of walking a day, up from sweet fa - and her staple evening meal was pasta bake as “pasta is healthy”......

Yup.

People need to be educated on what foods we ought to be eating, and how much of it.
Food manufacturers needs to forced to make the contents of their foods obvious (more so even than the traffic light scheme which many find too objectionable), preferably with a reminder on what should be eaten.

Food sellers need to stop preying on human weakness by looking healthy (you start at fresh fruit and veg), inducing hunger (then you file last the baker / cooking deli) before introducing you to the lower quality foods, and by the time they've kept you there 20 minutes after making you hungry, making you pass high valley impulse buys.




You'll be amazed to hear, I mostly come at these from the bias of back pain, it's dysevolution and lifestyle / societal causes, and what can be done to combat these causes, rather than trying to treat the symptoms once it's too late. Switching it across to nutrition (where I know way less, and am way less interested) it a simple application of the same principles.

Mike Baldwin (adapted).jpg

[Donny osmond]

We shouldn't be fat accepting, either.

It's a societal problem. And it's not even a real societal disease, it's more a symptom.

If we want to "solve" the obesity crisis, we need to make major changes to the world we live in, starting by cleansing ourselves of this neo-capitalist utopia Western politicians like to push onto us.

And return to the roots of capitalism to find a more social and human form of economic policy.

Barring some primary causes, it seems like a classic example of dysevolution. We eat way too much highly processed foods - because it's easy, and often cheap, whilst we have an ever increasing idea of what "a portion" looks like, especially for those highly processed foods.
This makes a difference, in terms of sheer calories consumed, in terms of ease of absorption and spikes of hyperglycaemia, and in terms of our gut micro-biome.
Combine that with an ever more sedentary lifestyle and ever increasing exposure to toxins (alcohol, antibiotics in meat, hormones in the water system etc etc) ever increasing stress levels, ever decreasing sleep quantity and quality.

It's just a perfect storm for these epidemics of non-communicable diseases were seeing. Obesity, Diabetes, back pain, food allergies, autism etc et

It can be overcome with willpower, but that's tough. Really tough. Especially when you introduce an element of addiction, and an element of depression, and an element of coping mechanism, an element of social conditoning and...

One day I'll be able to express myself as well as other people can...

Well said WT

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[Donny osmond]

Anyone ever tried cutting sugar out of their diet completely? Its very fkin difficult. I'd bet a penny to a pinch most RRs are addicted to sugar and either dont know or dont care.

I'm not convinced education is as big an answer as its been made out either. E.g. in Glasgow we famously have areas where the life expectancy is 54 due to diet, fags and booze. When you speak to folk from these areas, they know their life is unhealthy, but their circumstances are shit enough that they dont care, red meat fags and cheap booze might be the only things between them and a deliberate overdose.

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[Digby]

The quick win of course is to ban central heating. That'll get people burning more calories very nicely.

[Mellsblue]

The quick win of course is to ban central heating. That'll get people burning more calories very nicely.

And save the environment. Win, win.

[Which Tyler]

Anyone ever tried cutting sugar out of their diet completely? Its very fkin difficult. I'd bet a penny to a pinch most RRs are addicted to sugar and either dont know or dont care.

I'm not convinced education is as big an answer as its been made out either. E.g. in Glasgow we famously have areas where the life expectancy is 54 due to diet, fags and booze. When you speak to folk from these areas, they know their life is unhealthy, but their circumstances are shit enough that they dont care, red meat fags and cheap booze might be the only things between them and a deliberate overdose.

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That's why it's so much more than education.

Without any education, the change won't be made. It simply won't, because they won't know that they need to.
Basic information without understanding probably means that any attempt to address the problem will be unsuccessful (again, there's a very lucrative business in that "informing without educating" model*) but there's no guarantee that they'll even try.
Proper education means that people then have the tools to successfully address the dietary issues. But not (necessarily) the desire, the psychological tools or the sociological tools to succeed.

Education without motivation won't work for anything.



*See every commercially successful diet ever developed. For example Weight Watchers / Slimming World will simplify things down to a point scheme, and then they'll make it as easy as possible to keep track of your points. And they'll encourage you to eat healthy foods, by basing it on more than just calories... Which means that chicken, fish, fruit and eggs are "free" foods. So those I formed by uneducated people will eat 4 chicken breasts, 3 portions of fish, a 6-egg omelette, and a fruit smoothie every day, and think they're only using 1/4 of their daily points, so why aren't they losing weight? Others can take that simplification, and develop an understanding of the system, and use it to lose weight - which gives them plenty of success stories to encourage people through the door and encourage each group to stay on the plan. But they make their money from those who fail, or who I finally succeed, and then reach equilibrium at a weight they're still not happy with. (It's free once you reach target weight - pour encourage les outres - but those doing less well pay their £5 a week, every week, for several years)

[Mellsblue]

Anyone ever tried cutting sugar out of their diet completely? Its very fkin difficult. I'd bet a penny to a pinch most RRs are addicted to sugar and either dont know or dont care.

I'm not convinced education is as big an answer as its been made out either. E.g. in Glasgow we famously have areas where the life expectancy is 54 due to diet, fags and booze. When you speak to folk from these areas, they know their life is unhealthy, but their circumstances are shit enough that they dont care, red meat fags and cheap booze might be the only things between them and a deliberate overdose.

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Nobody says education will sort those who want to slowly kill themselves but it will help those who don’t want to do that and do want to become healthy.

[Stones of granite]

Anyone ever tried cutting sugar out of their diet completely? Its very fkin difficult. I'd bet a penny to a pinch most RRs are addicted to sugar and either dont know or dont care.

I'm not convinced education is as big an answer as its been made out either. E.g. in Glasgow we famously have areas where the life expectancy is 54 due to diet, fags and booze. When you speak to folk from these areas, they know their life is unhealthy, but their circumstances are shit enough that they dont care, red meat fags and cheap booze might be the only things between them and a deliberate overdose.

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Who said you have to cut sugar out of your diet completely?
It's not hard to drastically reduce the amount of sugar in your diet if you understand, or give a shit about, where the sugar is.

[Digby]

The quick win of course is to ban central heating. That'll get people burning more calories very nicely.

And save the environment. Win, win.

What if people returned to coal and wood fires, people other than rich middle class folk who already enjoy polluting the environment that is?

[Stom]

Anyone ever tried cutting sugar out of their diet completely? Its very fkin difficult. I'd bet a penny to a pinch most RRs are addicted to sugar and either dont know or dont care.

I'm not convinced education is as big an answer as its been made out either. E.g. in Glasgow we famously have areas where the life expectancy is 54 due to diet, fags and booze. When you speak to folk from these areas, they know their life is unhealthy, but their circumstances are shit enough that they dont care, red meat fags and cheap booze might be the only things between them and a deliberate overdose.

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Which is why I said it was a societal issue.

People feel stuck.

They're getting fatter and more unhealthy for the same reason they voted for Brexit.

[Digby]

People feel stuck.

Then they should eat less

[Mellsblue]

The quick win of course is to ban central heating. That'll get people burning more calories very nicely.

And save the environment. Win, win.

What if people returned to coal and wood fires, people other than rich middle class folk who already enjoy polluting the environment that is?

Good for them. There is nothing I love more than proclaiming my love of nature whilst warming myself in front of the wood burner.

My favourite example of middle class hypocrisy was when we had a neighbour couple round for drinks. The lady is the founder member of the local plastic free world/country/town group, a laudable aim, and all round save the environment preacher. I almost spat out my mouthful of organic, vegan, fair trade red wine when she told me they were going to Costa Rica on holiday. I was reliably informed that their carbon footprint was worth it as they could learn lessons from Costa Rica’s carbon neutral economy. I was also reliably informed that this information could not be gleaned via research on the internet but received no answer as to whether her job as a Life Coach meant she was perfectly placed to transform the UK’s economy into a carbon free one on her return. Going by her Facebook photos she spent the entire time on the beach surrounded by palm trees, which of course would lead to numerous learning opportunities that could be implemented in a market town in North Yorkshire.

[Digby]

And save the environment. Win, win.

What if people returned to coal and wood fires, people other than rich middle class folk who already enjoy polluting the environment that is?

Good for them. There is nothing I love more than proclaiming my love of nature whilst warming myself in front of the wood burner.

My favourite example of middle class hypocrisy was when we had a neighbour couple round for drinks. The lady is the founder member of the local plastic free world/country/town group, a laudable aim, and all round save the environment preacher. I almost spat out my mouthful of organic, vegan, fair trade red wine when she told me they were going to Costa Rica on holiday. I was reliably informed that their carbon footprint was worth it as they could learn lessons from Costa Rica’s carbon neutral economy. I was also reliably informed that this information could not be gleaned via research on the internet but received no answer as to whether her job as a Life Coach meant she was perfectly placed to transform the UK’s economy into a carbon free one on her return. Going by her Facebook photos she spent the entire time on the beach surrounded by palm trees, which of course would lead to numerous learning opportunities that could be implemented in a market town in North Yorkshire.

What I'm hearing here is you're a perv who stalks the social media profile of ladies in your area in the hope of seeming them in their bathing costumes

[Mellsblue]

What if people returned to coal and wood fires, people other than rich middle class folk who already enjoy polluting the environment that is?

Good for them. There is nothing I love more than proclaiming my love of nature whilst warming myself in front of the wood burner.

My favourite example of middle class hypocrisy was when we had a neighbour couple round for drinks. The lady is the founder member of the local plastic free world/country/town group, a laudable aim, and all round save the environment preacher. I almost spat out my mouthful of organic, vegan, fair trade red wine when she told me they were going to Costa Rica on holiday. I was reliably informed that their carbon footprint was worth it as they could learn lessons from Costa Rica’s carbon neutral economy. I was also reliably informed that this information could not be gleaned via research on the internet but received no answer as to whether her job as a Life Coach meant she was perfectly placed to transform the UK’s economy into a carbon free one on her return. Going by her Facebook photos she spent the entire time on the beach surrounded by palm trees, which of course would lead to numerous learning opportunities that could be implemented in a market town in North Yorkshire.

What I'm hearing here is you're a perv who stalks the social media profile of ladies in your area in the hope of seeming them in their bathing costumes

I live in a market town in N Yorkshire it’s about the only ‘exciting’ thing to do.

[morepork]

We shouldn't be fat accepting, either.

It's a societal problem. And it's not even a real societal disease, it's more a symptom.

If we want to "solve" the obesity crisis, we need to make major changes to the world we live in, starting by cleansing ourselves of this neo-capitalist utopia Western politicians like to push onto us.

And return to the roots of capitalism to find a more social and human form of economic policy.

Barring some primary causes, it seems like a classic example of dysevolution. We eat way too much highly processed foods - because it's easy, and often cheap, whilst we have an ever increasing idea of what "a portion" looks like, especially for those highly processed foods.
This makes a difference, in terms of sheer calories consumed, in terms of ease of absorption and spikes of hyperglycaemia, and in terms of our gut micro-biome.
Combine that with an ever more sedentary lifestyle and ever increasing exposure to toxins (alcohol, antibiotics in meat, hormones in the water system etc etc) ever increasing stress levels, ever decreasing sleep quantity and quality.

It's just a perfect storm for these epidemics of non-communicable diseases were seeing. Obesity, Diabetes, back pain, food allergies, autism etc et

It can be overcome with willpower, but that's tough. Really tough. Especially when you introduce an element of addiction, and an element of depression, and an element of coping mechanism, an element of social conditoning and...

I remember reading a few years ago about how much sugar there is in a bowl of cereal compared to the 80’s......cereals are banned from our house. I don’t know why we’ve allowed our food stock to deteriorate so badly and continue to do so, other than few sticking plasters. I know I’m a Tory c**t and most of you lot would never kiss me but one of the state’s central obligations is to keep us safe and healthy. Add that to efficiency of the public purse and they really dropped the (dough) ball on this one.

Food lobbyists. Paid to push legislation that promotes addiction. Craving fatty sugar diets results in the same dopaminergic neural pathway reward that crack does. That is the very definition of addiction. Thanks Kelloggs.

[Stom]

Barring some primary causes, it seems like a classic example of dysevolution. We eat way too much highly processed foods - because it's easy, and often cheap, whilst we have an ever increasing idea of what "a portion" looks like, especially for those highly processed foods.
This makes a difference, in terms of sheer calories consumed, in terms of ease of absorption and spikes of hyperglycaemia, and in terms of our gut micro-biome.
Combine that with an ever more sedentary lifestyle and ever increasing exposure to toxins (alcohol, antibiotics in meat, hormones in the water system etc etc) ever increasing stress levels, ever decreasing sleep quantity and quality.

It's just a perfect storm for these epidemics of non-communicable diseases were seeing. Obesity, Diabetes, back pain, food allergies, autism etc et

It can be overcome with willpower, but that's tough. Really tough. Especially when you introduce an element of addiction, and an element of depression, and an element of coping mechanism, an element of social conditoning and...

I remember reading a few years ago about how much sugar there is in a bowl of cereal compared to the 80’s......cereals are banned from our house. I don’t know why we’ve allowed our food stock to deteriorate so badly and continue to do so, other than few sticking plasters. I know I’m a Tory c**t and most of you lot would never kiss me but one of the state’s central obligations is to keep us safe and healthy. Add that to efficiency of the public purse and they really dropped the (dough) ball on this one.

Food lobbyists. Paid to push legislation that promotes addiction. Craving fatty sugar diets results in the same dopaminergic neural pathway reward that crack does. That is the very definition of addiction. Thanks Kelloggs.

And the "what to feed your child" section on the APA says breakfast should be fortified cereal and skimmed milk. This information is bought to you by Kelloggs.

Outrageous.

[Donny osmond]

Right so on the one hand we're happy to acknowledge the danger of sugar filled foods on account of sugar being so literally addictive, on the other hand we think diets and obesity are a simple matter of choosing to eat less.

How much choice is there in addiction, I wonder?

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[Mellsblue]

Right so on the one hand we're happy to acknowledge the danger of sugar filled foods on account of sugar being so literally addictive, on the other hand we think diets and obesity are a simple matter of choosing to eat less.

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Nailed it. Puja, close the thread.