Terf me out...

[Coco]

Do inconclusive documents often cause you this level of anxiety? You do seem to be, you know, jumping to conclusions.

Are you charging me for this professional assessment or is it complimentary? I doubt I can afford your rates as I am a simple blue collar business owner... without a degree or fancy, important capital latters after my name.

Ever the victim.

Will you take a check?

[Puja]

And 2) WHO THINKS GIVING A LOCAL REFEREE THE MANDATE TO CHECK PEOPLE'S GENDER IS A GOOD IDEA?! That's going to end up in someone demanding to look at genitalia and we all know it.

Why? Surely there are other things to consider if considering the gender of an individual? Whereas if you wanted to check someone's sex then looking at their genitalia would be of rather more relevance

That's kinda my point. How is a local ref supposed to be able to judge someone's gender (especially when international athletic federations struggle to define where the binary line falls)? If you say refs get the decision over whether someone's female enough to play, then you run the risk of a mass of false positives, and no matter how good an education and training regime you roll out, you are going to get refs in deepest darkest Somerset who are confused by the whole situation and end up causing a scandal by demanding to check if a burly second row is packing or not.

Puja

[morepork]

It's official. Bearded women are taking over grass roots rugby like a plaque of physically advantaged locusts. It's on my facebooks, so it must be true.


what a load of wank over nothing.

[Stom]

Genitalia no. Hormone levels yes. Checking for genitalia would be humiliating. Isnt a large part of the argument that genitalia does not conclude how the player identifies?

How's that possible at the amateur level?

Again, why all the fuss over what is a minuscule problem?

It's not going to happen in the Pro game because a testosterone level exists.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Btw, apparently the image shows a team which has the trans man with a beard and 2 transwomen. Now if a transwoman is a woman, can someone explain to me why a transman isn't a man? Because it looks horribly like male privilege asserting the right to be whatever it wants to be and to refuse to be denied access anywhere whilst saying fuck you to women.

[Puja]

Btw, apparently the image shows a team which has the trans man with a beard and 2 transwomen. Now if a transwoman is a woman, can someone explain to me why a transman isn't a man? Because it looks horribly like male privilege asserting the right to be whatever it wants to be and to refuse to be denied access anywhere whilst saying fuck you to women.

I don't believe the trans man is playing for the women's team anymore - I think that's a photo with former teammates. That's what I would expect anyway - as you say, a trans man is a man and should play on a men's team.

Puja

[Donny osmond]

The Irish are breaking ranks...

https://gcn.ie/trans-people-may-get-bet ... treatment/

Last February Minister Byrne said that transgender specific guidelines developed by the World Professional Association of Transgender Healthcare (WPATH) and supported by Transgender Equality Network Ireland (TENI) would provide the framework for the new services being developed by the HSE, which include nine new posts and the development of gender clinics.

However, Professor Donal O’Shea, a consultant endocrinologist at Saint Columcille’s Hospital and one of only two in the country who provides hormone treatment for trans people, told GCN: “We don’t intend to run the service in line with WPATH guidelines. Aligning with them would result in significant harm accruing to those with gender confusion.”

The WPATH guidelines are internationally accepted as best practice. Their current version was updated in 2017 and is used extensively when treating trans people. According to Vanessa Lacey of TENI the guidelines represent the organisation’s “bottom line, as they’re evidence-based” and “people-centred”.

Dr Paul Moran, a liaison psychiatrist who plays a central role in treating people at the Dublin clinic, says the WPATH guidelines “as they apply to assessment and treatment recommendation, are not part of our model of care, are clinically unsafe, and unsuitable for use in a public healthcare gender clinic.”

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[Stom]

Btw, apparently the image shows a team which has the trans man with a beard and 2 transwomen. Now if a transwoman is a woman, can someone explain to me why a transman isn't a man? Because it looks horribly like male privilege asserting the right to be whatever it wants to be and to refuse to be denied access anywhere whilst saying fuck you to women.

As I understood it from briefly reading his story, he played with the women while he wasn't yet fully transitioned. The beard was a medical condition unrelated to his hormone levels.

[Coco]

Genitalia no. Hormone levels yes. Checking for genitalia would be humiliating. Isnt a large part of the argument that genitalia does not conclude how the player identifies?

How's that possible at the amateur level?

Again, why all the fuss over what is a minuscule problem?

It's not going to happen in the Pro game because a testosterone level exists.

It isnt miniscule to athletes trying to get athletic scholarships and get scouted for bigger and better things. From what pool of amateur players do pro leagues observe and recruit from?

[Coco]

Btw, apparently the image shows a team which has the trans man with a beard and 2 transwomen. Now if a transwoman is a woman, can someone explain to me why a transman isn't a man? Because it looks horribly like male privilege asserting the right to be whatever it wants to be and to refuse to be denied access anywhere whilst saying fuck you to women.

As I understood it from briefly reading his story, he played with the women while he wasn't yet fully transitioned. The beard was a medical condition unrelated to his hormone levels.

The beard was a medical condition unrelated to hormones? Im curious to understand more about that interesting tidbit.

[Stom]

Genitalia no. Hormone levels yes. Checking for genitalia would be humiliating. Isnt a large part of the argument that genitalia does not conclude how the player identifies?

How's that possible at the amateur level?

Again, why all the fuss over what is a minuscule problem?

It's not going to happen in the Pro game because a testosterone level exists.

It isnt miniscule to athletes trying to get athletic scholarships and get scouted for bigger and better things. From what pool of amateur players do pro leagues observe and recruit from?

How does it impact their ability to get a scholarship or get scouted?

[Stom]

Btw, apparently the image shows a team which has the trans man with a beard and 2 transwomen. Now if a transwoman is a woman, can someone explain to me why a transman isn't a man? Because it looks horribly like male privilege asserting the right to be whatever it wants to be and to refuse to be denied access anywhere whilst saying fuck you to women.

As I understood it from briefly reading his story, he played with the women while he wasn't yet fully transitioned. The beard was a medical condition unrelated to his hormone levels.

The beard was a medical condition unrelated to hormones? Im curious to understand more about that interesting tidbit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrichosis

[Coco]

How's that possible at the amateur level?

Again, why all the fuss over what is a minuscule problem?

It's not going to happen in the Pro game because a testosterone level exists.

It isnt miniscule to athletes trying to get athletic scholarships and get scouted for bigger and better things. From what pool of amateur players do pro leagues observe and recruit from?

How does it impact their ability to get a scholarship or get scouted?

I was going to write out a long drawn out explanation for you but it occured to me that you cannot be serious Stom.

[Coco]

As I understood it from briefly reading his story, he played with the women while he wasn't yet fully transitioned. The beard was a medical condition unrelated to his hormone levels.

The beard was a medical condition unrelated to hormones? Im curious to understand more about that interesting tidbit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrichosis

[3][4] The excess growth of hair occurs in areas of the skin with the exception of androgen-dependent hair of the pubic area, face, and axillary regions.

A beard might be considered androgen dependent.

[Coco]

How's that possible at the amateur level?

Again, why all the fuss over what is a minuscule problem?

It's not going to happen in the Pro game because a testosterone level exists.

It isnt miniscule to athletes trying to get athletic scholarships and get scouted for bigger and better things. From what pool of amateur players do pro leagues observe and recruit from?

How does it impact their ability to get a scholarship or get scouted?

https://nypost.com/2019/10/13/justice-f ... -daughter/

You may not agree with it, but whether you do or do not does not change the reality of it.

[Stom]

Look, the article was about rugby.

I'm not going to get into the batshit crazy of American child sports. It's a world I cannot possibly believe is a positive thing.

If you want to find some more info about the hair growth, just read the article, or search for him yourself.

There's plenty of information.

There are testosterone tests in place. The case in your story would not happen in the UK. Could not happen. But at amateur level, why should you deny the right of anyone to play the game they want to play?

You cannot test them all...

And these are middle aged men and women, or social players. We don't do American style sports - no-one else except Russia and China do, ffs!

I'm out.

[Coco]

Look, the article was about rugby.

I'm not going to get into the batshit crazy of American child sports. It's a world I cannot possibly believe is a positive thing.

If you want to find some more info about the hair growth, just read the article, or search for him yourself.

There's plenty of information.

There are testosterone tests in place. The case in your story would not happen in the UK. Could not happen. But at amateur level, why should you deny the right of anyone to play the game they want to play?

You cannot test them all...

And these are middle aged men and women, or social players. We don't do American style sports - no-one else except Russia and China do, ffs!

I'm out.

Ah.. I did not get the memo that this discussion was only for rugby... and only for female athletes that are not involved in "batshit crazy" American youth/high school/college sports. Got it.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I can see how you might have been confused coco, what with this being on the politics and stuff board rather than a rugby one

[Coco]

I can see how you might have been confused coco, what with this being on the politics and stuff board rather than a rugby one

The more I read about this going on, the more it pisses me off. I dont care which sport it involves.

Youre right Eugene... I will return to the kitchen where I belong.

[morepork]

I don’t smell no grits cookin...

[Coco]

I don’t smell no grits cookin...

Tacos!!

[Donny osmond]

Not that I really want to go down this path again, but this made me lol, hard...

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/18/anyone-a ... -11173537/

The Universities and Colleges Union says that regardless of skin tone, people should be able to say if they identify as black.

The body, which represents 120,000 academics, set out their stance after facing criticism over the labelling of transgender people, saying they support self-identification in a variety of areas.

The union said: ‘Our rules commit us to ending all forms of discrimination, bigotry and stereotyping. UCU has a long history of enabling members to self-identify whether that is being black, disabled, LGBT+ or women.’



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[morepork]

I don’t smell no grits cookin...

Tacos!!

Ace.

[Donny osmond]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha-breathe-hahahahahahahaha

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[Mikey Brown]

...yes?