Trump

[gransoporro]

The feeling is that if Bernie gets the nomination, Trump stays in.

And if you are worried about Biden, think that Trump has already desensitized everyone.

Going back to the primaries, what i I see is that the Dems are thinking in priority order. First, beat Trump: that is the only priority right now. Also this Sanders is worse than the one 4 years ago, going on trumpian. He will never ever reach the peaks of the current president, but he is mimicking some aspects.

[J Dory]

America's scared of change.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Mikey Brown]

That video of Biden could only be improved if had forgotten to put on some trousers before stepping on stage.

Fuck Twitter

Whilst I do actually agree it’s a mess and destroying people’s brains (see any of my other posts in this thread) I’m not sure what time it is you’re harking back to where the general public were more discerning about the information they consume?

Unless there is some mystical source of news, under no outside influence/funding and deemed unbiased by all I don’t see what difference it will make at this point.

Twitter is weird because you’ve suddenly brought the comments sections of the guardian and the daily mail together in one place. It sends some people further into the wormhole to be exposed to so much dodgy rhetoric and disinformation, but for some it’s the only time they will see an opinion/fact contrary to theirs.

There are people who are able to look at this stuff and decide for themselves what they believe or trust, and those who are just looking to reaffirm their existing prejudices. I don’t imagine that’s ever been different or ever will be, whether it’s people reading Breitbart or just chatting to some randomer in the pub. These people will always exist.

It’s a grim situation and I don’t know what the answer is. Are we not just seeing the effect of people that are having fewer real world experiences/interactions, relying more and more on (and being manipulated by) sensationalist media of every kind?

[Stom]

That video of Biden could only be improved if had forgotten to put on some trousers before stepping on stage.

Fuck Twitter

Whilst I do actually agree it’s a mess and destroying people’s brains (see any of my other posts in this thread) I’m not sure what time it is you’re harking back to where the general public were more discerning about the information they consume?

Unless there is some mystical source of news, under no outside influence/funding and deemed unbiased by all I don’t see what difference it will make at this point.

Twitter is weird because you’ve suddenly brought the comments sections of the guardian and the daily mail together in one place. It sends some people further into the wormhole to be exposed to so much dodgy rhetoric and disinformation, but for some it’s the only time they will see an opinion/fact contrary to theirs.

There are people who are able to look at this stuff and decide for themselves what they believe or trust, and those who are just looking to reaffirm their existing prejudices. I don’t imagine that’s ever been different or ever will be, whether it’s people reading Breitbart or just chatting to some randomer in the pub. These people will always exist.

It’s a grim situation and I don’t know what the answer is. Are we not just seeing the effect of people that are having fewer real world experiences/interactions, relying more and more on (and being manipulated by) sensationalist media of every kind?

Hey, we're lucky. There are 1001 different media sources for English speakers. You can find claims, counter-claims, facts and figures, official documentation, and so on.

If you're a Hungarian speaker who doesn't speak English...well then you probably believe Coronavirus was created in a secret Jewish death lab by George Soros in order to prepare Europe for invasion by the Muslims.

And the contradictory voices are on very, very unofficial and very, very poor looking websites. Places that just don't scream trustworthiness. The kind of places Rowan would post about.

It's arse about face.

[Mikey Brown]

Warren parroting the Republican lines on Bernie seems to be paying off for Biden.

What a demented cripple fight this is going to be between Biden and Trump.

[Digby]

Warren parroting the Republican lines on Bernie seems to be paying off for Biden.

What a demented cripple fight this is going to be between Biden and Trump.

It's hardly a done thing on the Democratic nomination front, even before Warren could yet be the kingmaker

[Banquo]

Warren parroting the Republican lines on Bernie seems to be paying off for Biden.

What a demented cripple fight this is going to be between Biden and Trump.

Hate to say it, but Biden has a better chance of defeating Trump than Bernie from what I can see. Though I am brainwashed by the meedja obvs.

[Digby]

Warren parroting the Republican lines on Bernie seems to be paying off for Biden.

What a demented cripple fight this is going to be between Biden and Trump.

Hate to say it, but Biden has a better chance of defeating Trump than Bernie from what I can see. Though I am brainwashed by the meedja obvs.

I do like the media are now able to call Biden the young man of Democratic politics in his race with Sanders to win the nomination. China exporting more than cheap clothing

[Mikey Brown]

Warren parroting the Republican lines on Bernie seems to be paying off for Biden.

What a demented cripple fight this is going to be between Biden and Trump.

Hate to say it, but Biden has a better chance of defeating Trump than Bernie from what I can see. Though I am brainwashed by the meedja obvs.

I think his brain has decayed even further than Trump's, and large amount of his support seems to be with those who are near enough Republicans, or just think he's cool/good because he was mates with Obama. That could swing either way I guess. He might grab some votes from those who are disillusioned with Trump, but offering the status quo without all the fun right-wing talking points (guns, abortion, immigration, antifa) I don't see what is going to be his USP, aside from loving war and Mitch McConnel. Surely people will see through his 'return to civility' schtick? The guy is a fucking cunt.

That's not to say he won't be the next president.

[Banquo]

Warren parroting the Republican lines on Bernie seems to be paying off for Biden.

What a demented cripple fight this is going to be between Biden and Trump.

Hate to say it, but Biden has a better chance of defeating Trump than Bernie from what I can see. Though I am brainwashed by the meedja obvs.

I think his brain has decayed even further than Trump's, and large amount of his support seems to be with those who are near enough Republicans, or just think he's cool/good because he was mates with Obama. That could swing either way I guess. He might grab some votes from those who are disillusioned with Trump, but offering the status quo without all the fun right-wing talking points (guns, abortion, immigration, antifa) I don't see what is going to be his USP, aside from loving war and Mitch McConnel. Surely people will see through his 'return to civility' schtick? The guy is a fucking cunt.

That's not to say he won't be the next president.

I'm just saying he has a better chance than Bernie, rightly or wrongly.

[Mikey Brown]

That's fair. The annoyance in that response wasn't directed at you, more the fact that you may be correct.

I just thought we were past the point Biden was a realistic contender.

I'm also irritated that I seem to care, either way.

[Digby]

I thought Biden was a busted flush a few weeks back. Not sure he's mentally degrading though, I was never impressed to begin with and he's already served his purpose of making Obama less scary to white people, much more should be expected from a candidate than not being a shit of a person

[Stom]

It's just impossible to look at this Democratic race as anything but a stitch up, tbh.

Now Bloomberg has gone, after spending $500m making the other candidates look good.

Meanwhile, Warren, who was last in most states, is still going, presumably to take votes away from Sanders.

It just feels like the Dems decided they wanted Biden and have done everything possible to make sure it's him.

[Digby]

A stitch up?

in 2016 Bernie struggled with black voters and voters over 60, after 4 years of talking to people who already liked him he's struggled with black voters and voters over 60. He can turn this around, though the move from caucus to primary isn't so far helping him and there's more of those switched states to come. And Warren may yet throw in behind Sanders, unless Bernie throws in behind her of course

Oaky Bernie needs a surprise win from somewhere, but we've just been surprised by the comeback geriatric

[gransoporro]

It's just impossible to look at this Democratic race as anything but a stitch up, tbh.

Now Bloomberg has gone, after spending $500m making the other candidates look good.

Meanwhile, Warren, who was last in most states, is still going, presumably to take votes away from Sanders.

It just feels like the Dems decided they wanted Biden and have done everything possible to make sure it's him.

You know, it is their primary. They are voting, they are choosing. And right now, the choice is between Biden and Sanders. The moderate wing completed their consolidation, the progressive wing did not. A lot to do with Sanders, his campaign, his supporters and the way they go about their business: Trumpian.

Sanders started, literally, a blood feud with Warren; his supporters upped it by 2-3 notches. Difficult to see how she can now endorse him, or how her voters would automatically shift to Sanders. After all, Warren is the Policy Master, while Sanders now suggests he will depenalize and make legal marijuana by executive order in all 50 states (he cannot, just like Trump couldn’t have Mexico pay for the wall).

Sanders got his hardened base, just like Trump. And that base acts similarly to the Trump one. However it looks like it is comparatively smaller to the size of the party than Trump’s. They are belligerant but also alienating the rest. This is No way to unify the party: Biden is already in that phase, Sanders should start now.

The primary is no way over. Still time for the pendulum to swing.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah it doesn't appear Bloomberg actually gives a shit about winning, it's just easily worth $500m to him to keep the most right wing candidates in the race.

[Mikey Brown]

What is it you're actually referring to with the "Trumpian" Bernie supporters? I'm also very curious about this 'literal blood feud' that Sanders started with Warren?

[Digby]

Yeah it doesn't appear Bloomberg actually gives a shit about winning, it's just easily worth $500m to him to keep the most right wing candidates in the race.

Bernie didn't have to be so adamant about not taking any money from Bloomberg down the line, he really didn't need to say much about it period. But coming out and saying it was his and his followers campaign is daftly alienating, both to undecideds and followers of other campaigns and to the political groups who run the party who know how hard it is to raise funds. It might have made Bernie and his camp feel good but it was bad politics

[gransoporro]

What is it you're actually referring to with the "Trumpian" Bernie supporters? I'm also very curious about this 'literal blood feud' that Sanders started with Warren?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/15/politics ... index.html

Trumpian supporters: being belligerant, adopting the “fuck your feelings” attitude (Copyright of alt right in 2016), belittling and attacking personally their opponents rather than their policies.

[morepork]

That video of Biden could only be improved if had forgotten to put on some trousers before stepping on stage.

Fuck Twitter

Whilst I do actually agree it’s a mess and destroying people’s brains (see any of my other posts in this thread) I’m not sure what time it is you’re harking back to where the general public were more discerning about the information they consume?

Unless there is some mystical source of news, under no outside influence/funding and deemed unbiased by all I don’t see what difference it will make at this point.

Twitter is weird because you’ve suddenly brought the comments sections of the guardian and the daily mail together in one place. It sends some people further into the wormhole to be exposed to so much dodgy rhetoric and disinformation, but for some it’s the only time they will see an opinion/fact contrary to theirs.

There are people who are able to look at this stuff and decide for themselves what they believe or trust, and those who are just looking to reaffirm their existing prejudices. I don’t imagine that’s ever been different or ever will be, whether it’s people reading Breitbart or just chatting to some randomer in the pub. These people will always exist.

It’s a grim situation and I don’t know what the answer is. Are we not just seeing the effect of people that are having fewer real world experiences/interactions, relying more and more on (and being manipulated by) sensationalist media of every kind?

I'm not harking back to any time, I'm pissed off that social media wasn't reigned in before it owned personal data on 3/4 of the population of the earth. It is a virulent strain of pathogen that now infects everything, including elections. The public at large are not the root of the problem. It is the amplification of misinformation on such a massive scale that is the problem. We are stuck with it now and it will dictate most things from here on in, including public health and elections. It's totally FUBAR and wankers like that oversized baby with a receding hairline that owns Facebook sit back and play faux concern on the surface but behind the scenes know they hold massive amounts of data that gives the highest bidder access to do what ever the fuck they want to just about any body they want. If you could reset contemporary tech history, would you not try and prevent something like the anti-vax nonsense, or a world leader using the platform for everything from petty personal insults to threatening nuclear annihilation over a twitter spat?

[Digby]

We can still take action against the new media and online empires, if someone actually has some good ideas on what that should mean and be able to drive implementation. I don't know how much I'd actually blame legislators not being ready in advance for changes very few predicted accurately, and certainly not in such a timely fashion you could consider and pass decent legislation

[morepork]

We can still take action against the new media and online empires, if someone actually has some good ideas on what that should mean and be able to drive implementation. I don't know how much I'd actually blame legislators not being ready in advance for changes very few predicted accurately, and certainly not in such a timely fashion you could consider and pass decent legislation

They should have. If the tech nerds that created it could see it coming, and why would they have invested in/lobbied for it so hard if they didn't, then why couldn't legislators? There is still time to cut some of it off. Every converted physicist and statistician that traded in science for financial algorithms can still see it happening.

[Digby]

We can still take action against the new media and online empires, if someone actually has some good ideas on what that should mean and be able to drive implementation. I don't know how much I'd actually blame legislators not being ready in advance for changes very few predicted accurately, and certainly not in such a timely fashion you could consider and pass decent legislation

They should have. If the tech nerds that created it could see it coming, and why would they have invested in/lobbied for it so hard if they didn't, then why couldn't legislators? There is still time to cut some of it off. Every converted physicist and statistician that traded in science for financial algorithms can still see it happening.

I don't know how many of those physicists you've met but I wouldn't bet the bank on their predictions (or ask them about their algorithms), also I doubt anyone setting up Google, Facebook or Twitter had any idea we'd end up where we have, just as I doubt Microsoft truly saw the big picture looking to the future.

[Mikey Brown]

Pence refuses to answer reporters questions whether uninsured people can get tested for Coronovirus. I'd post the video but I don't want to get told off. Was there any clarification given on this?

[Mikey Brown]

I'm not harking back to any time, I'm pissed off that social media wasn't reigned in before it owned personal data on 3/4 of the population of the earth. It is a virulent strain of pathogen that now infects everything, including elections. The public at large are not the root of the problem. It is the amplification of misinformation on such a massive scale that is the problem. We are stuck with it now and it will dictate most things from here on in, including public health and elections. It's totally FUBAR and wankers like that oversized baby with a receding hairline that owns Facebook sit back and play faux concern on the surface but behind the scenes know they hold massive amounts of data that gives the highest bidder access to do what ever the fuck they want to just about any body they want. If you could reset contemporary tech history, would you not try and prevent something like the anti-vax nonsense, or a world leader using the platform for everything from petty personal insults to threatening nuclear annihilation over a twitter spat?

That's totally fair. And yes off course I would want to avoid that.

I'm just trying to imagine what would exist in place of the current social media situation that manages to regulate the information people read. Wouldn't a billion different websites full of the same drivel have the exact same effect? Maybe less easy to spread, but existing in totally closed communities.

I can't honestly picture the world without it at this point (or rather how you would now remove it) which is pretty sad. It just sounds like you view it as an entirely different entity to the rest of the internet, where people have had countless ways to share unverifiable nonsense, to masses of people, for years.