Trump

[Mikey Brown]

What is it you're actually referring to with the "Trumpian" Bernie supporters? I'm also very curious about this 'literal blood feud' that Sanders started with Warren?

[Digby]

Yeah it doesn't appear Bloomberg actually gives a shit about winning, it's just easily worth $500m to him to keep the most right wing candidates in the race.

Bernie didn't have to be so adamant about not taking any money from Bloomberg down the line, he really didn't need to say much about it period. But coming out and saying it was his and his followers campaign is daftly alienating, both to undecideds and followers of other campaigns and to the political groups who run the party who know how hard it is to raise funds. It might have made Bernie and his camp feel good but it was bad politics

[gransoporro]

What is it you're actually referring to with the "Trumpian" Bernie supporters? I'm also very curious about this 'literal blood feud' that Sanders started with Warren?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/15/politics ... index.html

Trumpian supporters: being belligerant, adopting the “fuck your feelings” attitude (Copyright of alt right in 2016), belittling and attacking personally their opponents rather than their policies.

[morepork]

That video of Biden could only be improved if had forgotten to put on some trousers before stepping on stage.

Fuck Twitter

Whilst I do actually agree it’s a mess and destroying people’s brains (see any of my other posts in this thread) I’m not sure what time it is you’re harking back to where the general public were more discerning about the information they consume?

Unless there is some mystical source of news, under no outside influence/funding and deemed unbiased by all I don’t see what difference it will make at this point.

Twitter is weird because you’ve suddenly brought the comments sections of the guardian and the daily mail together in one place. It sends some people further into the wormhole to be exposed to so much dodgy rhetoric and disinformation, but for some it’s the only time they will see an opinion/fact contrary to theirs.

There are people who are able to look at this stuff and decide for themselves what they believe or trust, and those who are just looking to reaffirm their existing prejudices. I don’t imagine that’s ever been different or ever will be, whether it’s people reading Breitbart or just chatting to some randomer in the pub. These people will always exist.

It’s a grim situation and I don’t know what the answer is. Are we not just seeing the effect of people that are having fewer real world experiences/interactions, relying more and more on (and being manipulated by) sensationalist media of every kind?

I'm not harking back to any time, I'm pissed off that social media wasn't reigned in before it owned personal data on 3/4 of the population of the earth. It is a virulent strain of pathogen that now infects everything, including elections. The public at large are not the root of the problem. It is the amplification of misinformation on such a massive scale that is the problem. We are stuck with it now and it will dictate most things from here on in, including public health and elections. It's totally FUBAR and wankers like that oversized baby with a receding hairline that owns Facebook sit back and play faux concern on the surface but behind the scenes know they hold massive amounts of data that gives the highest bidder access to do what ever the fuck they want to just about any body they want. If you could reset contemporary tech history, would you not try and prevent something like the anti-vax nonsense, or a world leader using the platform for everything from petty personal insults to threatening nuclear annihilation over a twitter spat?

[Digby]

We can still take action against the new media and online empires, if someone actually has some good ideas on what that should mean and be able to drive implementation. I don't know how much I'd actually blame legislators not being ready in advance for changes very few predicted accurately, and certainly not in such a timely fashion you could consider and pass decent legislation

[morepork]

We can still take action against the new media and online empires, if someone actually has some good ideas on what that should mean and be able to drive implementation. I don't know how much I'd actually blame legislators not being ready in advance for changes very few predicted accurately, and certainly not in such a timely fashion you could consider and pass decent legislation

They should have. If the tech nerds that created it could see it coming, and why would they have invested in/lobbied for it so hard if they didn't, then why couldn't legislators? There is still time to cut some of it off. Every converted physicist and statistician that traded in science for financial algorithms can still see it happening.

[Digby]

We can still take action against the new media and online empires, if someone actually has some good ideas on what that should mean and be able to drive implementation. I don't know how much I'd actually blame legislators not being ready in advance for changes very few predicted accurately, and certainly not in such a timely fashion you could consider and pass decent legislation

They should have. If the tech nerds that created it could see it coming, and why would they have invested in/lobbied for it so hard if they didn't, then why couldn't legislators? There is still time to cut some of it off. Every converted physicist and statistician that traded in science for financial algorithms can still see it happening.

I don't know how many of those physicists you've met but I wouldn't bet the bank on their predictions (or ask them about their algorithms), also I doubt anyone setting up Google, Facebook or Twitter had any idea we'd end up where we have, just as I doubt Microsoft truly saw the big picture looking to the future.

[Mikey Brown]

Pence refuses to answer reporters questions whether uninsured people can get tested for Coronovirus. I'd post the video but I don't want to get told off. Was there any clarification given on this?

[Mikey Brown]

I'm not harking back to any time, I'm pissed off that social media wasn't reigned in before it owned personal data on 3/4 of the population of the earth. It is a virulent strain of pathogen that now infects everything, including elections. The public at large are not the root of the problem. It is the amplification of misinformation on such a massive scale that is the problem. We are stuck with it now and it will dictate most things from here on in, including public health and elections. It's totally FUBAR and wankers like that oversized baby with a receding hairline that owns Facebook sit back and play faux concern on the surface but behind the scenes know they hold massive amounts of data that gives the highest bidder access to do what ever the fuck they want to just about any body they want. If you could reset contemporary tech history, would you not try and prevent something like the anti-vax nonsense, or a world leader using the platform for everything from petty personal insults to threatening nuclear annihilation over a twitter spat?

That's totally fair. And yes off course I would want to avoid that.

I'm just trying to imagine what would exist in place of the current social media situation that manages to regulate the information people read. Wouldn't a billion different websites full of the same drivel have the exact same effect? Maybe less easy to spread, but existing in totally closed communities.

I can't honestly picture the world without it at this point (or rather how you would now remove it) which is pretty sad. It just sounds like you view it as an entirely different entity to the rest of the internet, where people have had countless ways to share unverifiable nonsense, to masses of people, for years.

[Digby]

Publish and be damned, 'twas ever the solution

[morepork]

Pence refuses to answer reporters questions whether uninsured people can get tested for Coronovirus. I'd post the video but I don't want to get told off. Was there any clarification given on this?

It is designated an essential benefit, which means that insurance is obliged to cover the cost under the Affordable Care Act. The more acute issue is getting the test kits out in sufficient numbers to cut off spread. That is one problem that flinging dollars at would help address quickly. First case on the East Coast was reported this morning. Meanwhile, in Orange Narnia, this sage wisdom on the WHO prediction of world wide mortality rates has been offered on national television:

"Well, I think the 3.4 percent is really a false number. Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it's very mild. They'll get better very rapidly. They don't even see a doctor. They don't even call a doctor,"

"You never hear about those people. So you can't put them down in the category of the overall population in terms of this corona flu and — or virus. So you just can't do that," he continued. "So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work but they get better."

"But again, they don't know about the easy cases because the easy cases don't go to the hospital. They don't report to doctors or the hospital, in many cases," Trump said. "So I think that that number is very high. I think the number, personally, I would say the number is way under 1 percent."

Asymptomatic carriers: just go to work. I have a hunch that there is, like, a tremendously small chance of, you know, getting other people infect.


Righty ho man, righty ho.

[Mikey Brown]

I don't even know how to start comprehending all that. I can even understand the logic in thinking there may be many undiagnosed, mild cases of the virus but what purpose is it serving to make any of these claims in public? I guess talking to a lot of people who do a lot of things and say a lot of stuff is as much clarity as we need on that.

At least they are obliged to test people for it under ACA, though even that sounds like it may be futile if they can't reach people.

[gransoporro]

Meanwhile, in Orange Narnia, this sage wisdom on the WHO prediction of world wide mortality rates has been offered on national television:

"Well, I think the 3.4 percent is really a false number. Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it's very mild. They'll get better very rapidly. They don't even see a doctor. They don't even call a doctor,"

"You never hear about those people. So you can't put them down in the category of the overall population in terms of this corona flu and — or virus. So you just can't do that," he continued. "So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work but they get better."

"But again, they don't know about the easy cases because the easy cases don't go to the hospital. They don't report to doctors or the hospital, in many cases," Trump said. "So I think that that number is very high. I think the number, personally, I would say the number is way under 1 percent."

I will translate that bit. As you know, Trump tweets are professionally interpreted on cable network every day, so trust me, I know what I am doing. Just like I spoke to the president...

[Trump]
I am scared not of a pandemic and the related death toll, I will when the pandemics actually arrives.

Right now, since I focus on the very, VERY short term, I am scared of the effects of the pandemic SCARE on the financial markets. No, not on the economy, I said on the financial markets.

So I am addressing it in the best possible way, which is my way. I will minimize and make stuff up and wing it to tell everyone to go to work, don’t stop production or shopping, just keep going. Everything is fine. Move along, nothing to see here!

[/Trump]

My opinion: nothing to do with responsible actions, careful thought, etc. These are impulsive actions elevated to method.

In case it is not clear, I don’t want Sanders to be the alternative to Trump. But if he is nominated, I will vote him in November and I will go home happy. Happy because I will have done my duty towards the US.

[Digby]

Asymptomatic carriers: just go to work. I have a hunch that there is, like, a tremendously small chance of, you know, getting other people infect.

If they don't go to work the economy suffers and that hurts Trump. Some dead people might not hurt him as much, especially if he can blame it on foreign types.

[morepork]

On the plus side, there are some really cheap airfares going at the moment.

[Digby]

Climate killer!

[Digby]

The breakdown of the votes from Tuesday is telling a familiar story, young people were too busy to actually go and vote, they'd much rather complain on social media after the fact

[morepork]

Anyone under 80 probably had to work Tuesday.

[Banquo]

Warren gone.................

[gransoporro]

Warren gone.................

But Gabbard is still in!

[Banquo]

Warren gone.................

But Gabbard is still in!

going for the under the radar approach

[Digby]

So having either lied or been mistaken about there only being 15 people with coronavirus in the US and that number trending down, and then either lying or being mistaken about how vaccines work it's comforting to know Trump has moved on to talking about maths being wrong 'cause he has a hunch. It's inspiring leadership

Does he think he's negotiating with the virus?

[morepork]

When you make Mike "Conversion Therapy" Pence look stately, you know you are in trouble.

Somewhat related....how dirty are fucking cruise ships? Get thousands of people from all parts of the globe together in a confined space, let them infect each other, then let them off en-masse to nice places like Venice. I wonder what the STD rates are on one of those repulsive floating petri dishes?

[Son of Mathonwy]

We can still take action against the new media and online empires, if someone actually has some good ideas on what that should mean and be able to drive implementation. I don't know how much I'd actually blame legislators not being ready in advance for changes very few predicted accurately, and certainly not in such a timely fashion you could consider and pass decent legislation

They should have. If the tech nerds that created it could see it coming, and why would they have invested in/lobbied for it so hard if they didn't, then why couldn't legislators? There is still time to cut some of it off. Every converted physicist and statistician that traded in science for financial algorithms can still see it happening.

I don't know how many of those physicists you've met but I wouldn't bet the bank on their predictions (or ask them about their algorithms), also I doubt anyone setting up Google, Facebook or Twitter had any idea we'd end up where we have, just as I doubt Microsoft truly saw the big picture looking to the future.

Regardless of how unpredictable the emergence of Google, Facebook and Twitter was they can be dealt with through regulation, enforced corporate break-up or even nationalisation. If there was the political will to do so.

Unfortunately, as the treatment of Microsoft/Windows has shown, there is no such political will.

[Digby]

When you make Mike "Conversion Therapy" Pence look stately, you know you are in trouble.

Somewhat related....how dirty are fucking cruise ships? Get thousands of people from all parts of the globe together in a confined space, let them infect each other, then let them off en-masse to nice places like Venice. I wonder what the STD rates are on one of those repulsive floating petri dishes?

They're planes you spend more time in with all that recycled air, and at least you spend at worst maybe a day flying. I confess to feeling sorry for the crew, but the passengers are a sacrifice I'm willing to make.