England v Japan

[francoisfou]

How do I feel about Eddie’s selection decisions?
I don’t want to talk about it, how Eddie broke my heart

You wear it well

Well eddie does pick the same old Faces.

Faeces?

[Beasties]

Urgh. Whatever, Eddie.

[Oakboy]

According to an article in the DT, should we lose to Japan we would need to beat NZ and SA to achieve the amazingly high win ratio that we managed in the previous year - 50%.

Amid all the various excuses trotted out, surely nobody would claim that as anything but failure by Jones to do his job properly?

[Mikey Brown]

You can’t dismiss his win ratio on one hand and then suddenly claim it’s important on the other, though obviously we should not be happy losing to Japan. Is “amazingly high win ratio” a quote from somebody?

FWIW I do think focussing just on the stats/records is a big part of the problem with a lot of modern teams, and Jones in particular. I can understand how helpful they can be, but it feels like with the World Cup in particular he is happy to sacrifice just about anything for the win, even if nobody enjoys watching England play for the 3.5 years in between.

At the same time though, you seemed to have a fairly binary view that losing the final renders his entire tenure a complete failure?

[Banquo]

You can’t dismiss his win ratio on one hand and then suddenly claim it’s important on the other, though obviously we should not be happy losing to Japan. Is “amazingly high win ratio” a quote from somebody?

FWIW I do think focussing just on the stats/records is a big part of the problem with a lot of modern teams, and Jones in particular. I can understand how helpful they can be, but it feels like with the World Cup in particular he is happy to sacrifice just about anything for the win, even if nobody enjoys watching England play for the 3.5 years in between.

At the same time though, you seemed to have a fairly binary view that losing the final renders his entire tenure a complete failure?

Agreed with the stats point in general- for example, if you looked at every attacking stat bar the scoreboard v Argentina, you'd say we'd played well- but the point I was making with the winning stat, was that its a decent proof point over a long period.

[FKAS]

Cheer everyone up a bit with some highlights from the main man for tomorrow.

[Mellsblue]

Zen Master Owen Farrell:
“We don’t want to overthink things,” Farrell said. “Maybe we were guilty of that a little bit at the weekend. We want to free ourselves up to be the best version of ourselves now.
“It is about letting go that bit more, not worrying about everything as much and trying to be as free but in control of the next moment. I think if we do that, it will leave us in a good place and give off to the crowd and in turn they’ll get behind us.”

Just concentrate on not throwing the ball on the floor, old chap.

[Mellsblue]

Selection context according to Alex Lowe in The Times:
Simmonds in to combat high-tempo Japan with the knock on being Ribband replacing Coles to mitigate loss of Billy’s, erm, ballast.

[Puja]

Cheer everyone up a bit with some highlights from the main man for tomorrow.

You're enjoying this way too much

Puja

[FKAS]

Cheer everyone up a bit with some highlights from the main man for tomorrow.

You're enjoying this way too much

Puja

Imagine what it'll be like if he has a good game tomorrow...

[Mellsblue]

Imagine being the key word

[TheNomad]

Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc

I don't get it

[Puja]

Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc

I don't get it

I think he's a solid club player on the level of Chris Harris and Nick Tompkins, in that he could become a pretty useful international option, albeit not one without flaws. He's decent in a lot of aspects - strength, speed, handling, running lines, tackling - without being outstanding anywhere.

I'm happy to have him ahead of Slade (as the last thing this backline needs is more people in the queue to play first receiver) and Daly (wing or nothing) and Lozowski (pretty much the same description applies as to Porter), and I understood selecting him ahead of Lawrence before Lawrence's spurt of form at Bath.

The board's usual tendency towards extremes means that he is a bit underappreciated here, and I think he could have a good game against Japan - probably worth a cheeky bet on him scoring the first try tbh. Having him ahead of Marchant and current form Lawrence is baffling though.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc

I don't get it

You're not missing anything. I don't think many people at all in the world would have him above any of those players. Maybe Lozowski at a push at best. And I say that as a Tigers fan.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc

I don't get it

I think he's a solid club player on the level of Chris Harris and Nick Tompkins, in that he could become a pretty useful international option, albeit not one without flaws. He's decent in a lot of aspects - strength, speed, handling, running lines, tackling - without being outstanding anywhere.

I'm happy to have him ahead of Slade (as the last thing this backline needs is more people in the queue to play first receiver) and Daly (wing or nothing) and Lozowski (pretty much the same description applies as to Porter), and I understood selecting him ahead of Lawrence before Lawrence's spurt of form at Bath.

The board's usual tendency towards extremes means that he is a bit underappreciated here, and I think he could have a good game against Japan - probably worth a cheeky bet on him scoring the first try tbh. Having him ahead of Marchant and current form Lawrence is baffling though.

Puja

I'd say he's a decent step down from both Harris and Tompkins.

[Oakboy]

Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc

I don't get it

You're not missing anything. I don't think many people at all in the world would have him above any of those players. Maybe Lozowski at a push at best. And I say that as a Tigers fan.

Devoto, once fit?

[Puja]

Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc

I don't get it

I think he's a solid club player on the level of Chris Harris and Nick Tompkins, in that he could become a pretty useful international option, albeit not one without flaws. He's decent in a lot of aspects - strength, speed, handling, running lines, tackling - without being outstanding anywhere.

I'm happy to have him ahead of Slade (as the last thing this backline needs is more people in the queue to play first receiver) and Daly (wing or nothing) and Lozowski (pretty much the same description applies as to Porter), and I understood selecting him ahead of Lawrence before Lawrence's spurt of form at Bath.

The board's usual tendency towards extremes means that he is a bit underappreciated here, and I think he could have a good game against Japan - probably worth a cheeky bet on him scoring the first try tbh. Having him ahead of Marchant and current form Lawrence is baffling though.

Puja

I'd say he's a decent step down from both Harris and Tompkins.

Now, yes, but when they were both picked as internationals, absolutely not. I remember when Scotland first poached Harris and everyone expressed disbelief that they would bother, let alone that the international experience would develop him into a worthy BIL one day.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc

I don't get it

You're not missing anything. I don't think many people at all in the world would have him above any of those players. Maybe Lozowski at a push at best. And I say that as a Tigers fan.

Devoto, once fit?

Which is almost never …

[Which Tyler]

Devoto, once fit?

Which is almost never …

You can take the boy out of Bath...

[Scrumhead]

I think he's a solid club player on the level of Chris Harris and Nick Tompkins, in that he could become a pretty useful international option, albeit not one without flaws. He's decent in a lot of aspects - strength, speed, handling, running lines, tackling - without being outstanding anywhere.

I'm happy to have him ahead of Slade (as the last thing this backline needs is more people in the queue to play first receiver) and Daly (wing or nothing) and Lozowski (pretty much the same description applies as to Porter), and I understood selecting him ahead of Lawrence before Lawrence's spurt of form at Bath.

The board's usual tendency towards extremes means that he is a bit underappreciated here, and I think he could have a good game against Japan - probably worth a cheeky bet on him scoring the first try tbh. Having him ahead of Marchant and current form Lawrence is baffling though.

Puja

I'd say he's a decent step down from both Harris and Tompkins.

Now, yes, but when they were both picked as internationals, absolutely not. I remember when Scotland first poached Harris and everyone expressed disbelief that they would bother, let alone that the international experience would develop him into a worthy BIL one day.

Puja

Fair point in Harris’ case.

I think Tompkins was a big miss for us. He was in great form prior to he last RWC and I’m pretty sure I tipped him as a potential bolter even back then.

[Puja]

I'd say he's a decent step down from both Harris and Tompkins.

Now, yes, but when they were both picked as internationals, absolutely not. I remember when Scotland first poached Harris and everyone expressed disbelief that they would bother, let alone that the international experience would develop him into a worthy BIL one day.

Puja

Fair point in Harris’ case.

I think Tompkins was a big miss for us. He was in great form prior to he last RWC and I’m pretty sure I tipped him as a potential bolter even back then.

I think Tompkins has been a big miss for us with hindsight, but I don't think he was considered as such at the time. Barely got into the England A side (did I mention that he played for England A and shouldn't've been available for Wales except by the bizarre gymnastics of the IRB's rules about when's an A game between two A teams not an A game between two A teams? I don't think I've mentioned that before, certainly not a hobby horse of mine), was in and out for Sarries, was rated by most as pretty good, but unlikely to ever really trouble the international game. He certainly wasn't banging down the door for England selection and I think the overarching mood when he defected was a "aww, good for him, getting his chance to play a couple of tests while Wales have injuries!"

Amazing how much both he and Harris have improved from being internationals. What's happened to Johnny Williams nowadays, thinking of poaches?

Puja

[FKAS]

Johnny Williams is always injured. Shame really as he is a really classy IC when fit.

Tompkins issue was Brad Barritt, I always thought when Barritt retired Tompkins would come good for Sarries. A great poach by Wales but realistically he wasn't going to be picked for England because he's only international quality at 12 (as Wales picking him at 13 demonstrated) and Eddie was never going to drop Faz.

[fivepointer]

Tompkins always played 13. Wales moved him to IC and have to be applauded in the way they've got him to be a very decent international centre.

[pompey-zebra]

Now, yes, but when they were both picked as internationals, absolutely not. I remember when Scotland first poached Harris and everyone expressed disbelief that they would bother, let alone that the international experience would develop him into a worthy BIL one day.

Puja

Fair point in Harris’ case.

I think Tompkins was a big miss for us. He was in great form prior to he last RWC and I’m pretty sure I tipped him as a potential bolter even back then.

Amazing how much both he and Harris have improved from being internationals. What's happened to Johnny Williams nowadays, thinking of poaches?

Puja

He's injured again which is a shame for Wales as he was in good form before he got crocked. If he can get/ stay fit he'll be in contention for a Wales place , I'm sure.

[p/d]

Porter will bring power, pace and - as his highlight reel shone the light on - no shortage of panache.