England V NZ

[Blandy]

I don't get picking Simmonds as a flanker, particularly over Willis. And Itoje reverting to lock for our most important game shows what a balls that whole idea was, it's not like the same players weren't available.

Not sure what more Coles could have done. Hill has been decidedly average.

CM speculating that he will rotate with billy at the base of the scrum.

I noticed in the Japan game, that after Sam Simmonds came on they both packed down at 8. I think Simmonds on our ball and Billy on theirs, but I might have that the wrong way round!

[Banquo]

I don't get picking Simmonds as a flanker, particularly over Willis. And Itoje reverting to lock for our most important game shows what a balls that whole idea was, it's not like the same players weren't available.

Not sure what more Coles could have done. Hill has been decidedly average.

CM speculating that he will rotate with billy at the base of the scrum.

I noticed in the Japan game, that after Sam Simmonds came on they both packed down at 8. I think Simmonds on our ball and Billy on theirs, but I might have that the wrong way round!

That way round would make most sense, esp for an exit play. I'd worry about Billy packing down at 6 on their ball (unless zero room blind)- mind Simmonds equally doesn't have much experience of that as far as I know?

[FKAS]

Interesting, reckon Eddie was banking on no third jumper for inzid. LCD has been wobbly enough without this

I dunno, it's either that or he was banking on NZ moving Barrett to 6 with Retallick back and thought he'd try a curved ball option for NZ to deal with. NZ didn't resource the breakdown well and didn't get around the park as effectively as they'd have liked Vs Scotland. Adding Simmonds energy to backrow at the same time NZ drop one of their impressive backrow for a third lock could work well in the loose.

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

[Peej]

I dunno, it's either that or he was banking on NZ moving Barrett to 6 with Retallick back and thought he'd try a curved ball option for NZ to deal with. NZ didn't resource the breakdown well and didn't get around the park as effectively as they'd have liked Vs Scotland. Adding Simmonds energy to backrow at the same time NZ drop one of their impressive backrow for a third lock could work well in the loose.

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Or they were attempting to defend us attacking theirs and have been left slightly nonplussed by our abandoning of our firmly-held stupid principles.

Puja

Didn't NZ try and do that in the 2019 SF though, when we had Curry and Underhill on the flanks, to zero success?

[Banquo]

I dunno, it's either that or he was banking on NZ moving Barrett to 6 with Retallick back and thought he'd try a curved ball option for NZ to deal with. NZ didn't resource the breakdown well and didn't get around the park as effectively as they'd have liked Vs Scotland. Adding Simmonds energy to backrow at the same time NZ drop one of their impressive backrow for a third lock could work well in the loose.

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

(btw- I argued for a while that Simmonds might be better looked at as an option at 7, to be told he was no good at the breakdown . I think he's ok there, esp as a surprise jackaller (?), but its not natural to him)

[Oakboy]

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

Simmonds at his try-scoring best a season or two back did not provide speedy carrying out wide like Croft. He thrived on getting through gaps more in-field. I can see that being much harder against top international teams but if that is his natural game why not back him in the 8 shirt at Billy's expense? This selection seems likely to be another hiding-to-nothing. All of us will be watching with 'it should be Willis' on the tip of our tongues every time he does anything less than sensational.

[Banquo]

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

Simmonds at his try-scoring best a season or two back did not provide speedy carrying out wide like Croft. He thrived on getting through gaps more in-field. I can see that being much harder against top international teams but if that is his natural game why not back him in the 8 shirt at Billy's expense? This selection seems likely to be another hiding-to-nothing. All of us will be watching with 'it should be Willis' on the tip of our tongues every time he does anything less than sensational.

Different question tho, its more about concerns at the breakdown than his carrying for me (tho interesting to see how he does there and how tasked)....and I do agree on selection to nothing to some extent.

I would say that Eddie clearly isn't bothering about results, but is having a play about with options in the pack. He clearly has little interest in the backs

[fivepointer]

Simmonds is another compromise selection. Willis would have been the same as Itoje was. Once Lawes wasnt going to make the cut and Jones didnt show any interest in anyone who regularly plays 6, we were destined for these kind of picks.
Sometimes you can muddle through and it may come good. Or maybe not.
But you cant have a strategy when you keep doing this kind of stuff.

[Banquo]

Simmonds is another compromise selection. Willis would have been the same as Itoje was. Once Lawes wasnt going to make the cut and Jones didnt show any interest in anyone who regularly plays 6, we were destined for these kind of picks.
Sometimes you can muddle through and it may come good. Or maybe not.
But you cant have a strategy when you keep doing this kind of stuff.

Curry has played a fair bit at 6 w Underhill, so could have done that. A good plan.

[Puja]

Cockers on facing down norm hewitt.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... hinking%2F

Great story, slightly let down by them going on to put us away.

I actually remember the week after much more fondly - we suddenly brought out an all-court game from nowhere and caught NZ napping, scoring three quick tries (including David Rees taking the mick out of Lomu with a glorious try. It was inconceivable to our shattered psyches just two years after he pulverised us in Cape Town. Lomu was invincible to us back then). Sadly we gave it everything in the first half and had absolutely nothing left in the second, but we managed to scrape a 26-26 draw with a late penalty kick to level it. Great game.

Puja

[jngf]

.....in which case you'd pick Willis surely? Simmonds is ok on groundwork, but its not his forte, nor does he do much breakdown work for Chiefs. NZ are targeting our lineout either way.

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

(btw- I argued for a while that Simmonds might be better looked at as an option at 7, to be told he was no good at the breakdown . I think he's ok there, esp as a surprise jackaller (?), but its not natural to him)

I’m really looking forward to seeing how Simmonds starts at 6 - reminds me a bit of how SA would use Kwagga Smith at blindside on occasion

[Scrumhead]

@jngf are you back or is this a fleeting visit?

[morepork]

Just kick it at Caleb Clarke. He'll drop it.

[Banquo]

@jngf are you back or is this a fleeting visit?

just waiting for the right time....

[Banquo]

Simmonds is not a particular jackler of note but he is good at covering ground and linking in the wider channels. I'd assumed his selection would potentially catch out NZ with their weightier pack as we play wider. He certainly can impact the breakdown as well. He could also be handy cover in the wider channels defensively as NZ some good backs and a pacey flanker defending further out might restrict a team that relies on individual brilliance more than it does structure.

Simmonds will hopefully carry a fair bit as well, try and force that AB defence to work hard.

I'm hoping that Willis on the bench is an option to be deployed fairly early in the game. Bring him on after 45 mins when the starting NZ guys are starting to fatigue slightly and there's that second extra to get at the breakdown for him and Curry.

Hmm...playing wider with that backline doesn't seem a great plan, and the key point was about what happens resourcing at the breakdown, where Simmonds historically hasn't really been tasked with doing much so not a body of evidence that 'he can certainly impact the breakdown'. We shall see. His selection would make a bit more sense if we were likely to be playing fast and loose (our bench seems to indicate an arm wrestle) and we were picking him for our side of the ball- personally, I'd think that suicide v NZ, but very happy to be proved wrong. Simmonds carrying will be interesting- the better sides have smashed him backwards.

I'd also say that NZ have two very good opensides in their back row. Barrett S makes it a bit slower, but both second rows are reasonably mobile.

The key point for me is that Simmonds hasn't played much in a conventional back row manner at club level- and even less as a flanker, and even less as a blindside, where there are some positional considerations off scrums at least. I hope it works.

(btw- I argued for a while that Simmonds might be better looked at as an option at 7, to be told he was no good at the breakdown . I think he's ok there, esp as a surprise jackaller (?), but its not natural to him)

I’m really looking forward to seeing how Simmonds starts at 6 - reminds me a bit of how SA would use Quagga Smith at blindside on occasion

kwagga? Think he has started at blindside/7 in bok money 4 times, admittedly 3 in 2021 when PSDT was crocked. Else he has played 8 or openside/6 when Kolisi is out. It will be interesting, but a bit of a punt given Simmonds style and playing experience.

[Danno]

@jngf are you back or is this a fleeting visit?

+1. Takes a whole lotta viewpoints to make a forum worthwhile.

[Oakboy]

The press and the training camp are talking up Tuilagi. Fully fit and firing, he deserves it BUT I think we get a down-tuned version or another injury. Tomorrow's match could be a test of the value of his future involvement. I'd be surprised if he plays a major part against NZ and SA.

[fivepointer]

He's done nothing since the WC and nothing so far this season to suggest he's going to have a major impact on the game.

We'll see.

[Banquo]

He's done nothing since the WC and nothing so far this season to suggest he's going to have a major impact on the game.

We'll see.

yep, 31 and injury prone centre doesn't sound that worrying, apart from to us fans.

[Mikey Brown]

Anyone know where Marler and Jones officially stand on his England career? Not sure if he’s still an option or not. Perhaps like Ford EJ views him as a useful player to have available to drop in if needed, but feels like the uncertainty around his full-time availability for England has done for him, for now.

[Oakboy]

Why is it a 5.30 KO?

[Timbo]

I think there’s no doubt that Manu is a fading force. Still a good player though, particularly in international rugby where the game is a bit more staccato and power is king. He remains Englands best player at getting over a gainline, especially from 1st phase and strike moves and he still draws defenders to him creating space for others- see Argentina game for Cokanasiga’s try and also the clean break where Cokanasiga ran over Matera.

Unlikely to dominate a game anymore, but still more than good enough to be part of a strong midfield.

[FKAS]

Why is it a 5.30 KO?

Because Amazon have bought all the TV rights and want a full Saturday afternoon/evening of coverage as well as a game on Sunday. I'm guessing the compromise is that the nation's take it in turns for certain time slots.

[Puja]

Why is it a 5.30 KO?

Because Amazon have bought all the TV rights and want a full Saturday afternoon/evening of coverage as well as a game on Sunday. I'm guessing the compromise is that the nation's take it in turns for certain time slots.

Works for me; I'm playing this weekend, so it fits perfectly for me.

Puja

[Peej]

Having invested a few weeks in getting myself fit again for a rugby comeback having managed 70 minutes in 6 years (life, children, rough two years with lockdown etc) by training with the 1st team as an extra body/bag carrier, my club doesn't actually have a game this week...