Team for Italy

[francoisfou]

Kelly not available so SB is left with Hobsons choice at 12.
Farrell again, an over the hill Tuilagi or out of position Slade or Lawrence.
Its not a choice to relish.

Shame Dingwall's form hasn't been that good tbh.

Mark Atkinson's another who's a bit unlucky not to have been given a chance, and Sam James too.
But if Borthers doesn't drop Smith to the bench and move his outstanding captain to 10, then this is all pointless speculation, innit?

[Oakboy]

Kelly not available so SB is left with Hobsons choice at 12.
Farrell again, an over the hill Tuilagi or out of position Slade or Lawrence.
Its not a choice to relish.

Shame Dingwall's form hasn't been that good tbh.

He looked good for a bit but hasnt followed through. What does SB do? His options are so limited in this position that he has to make a compromise selection.
Yes, Farrell is an awful 12 but anyone else (including Kelly) might be a poor option too.
Fast forward a year and we might have Kelly, Atkinson and Ojomoh as options. Right now we are f*****d!

I'd pick Farrell, Slade and Marchant for this game. I'd like to see Smith, Lawrence and Slade but it won't happen.

I'd also risk Mitchell on the bench in place of Youngs.

[Oakboy]

Kelly not available so SB is left with Hobsons choice at 12.
Farrell again, an over the hill Tuilagi or out of position Slade or Lawrence.
Its not a choice to relish.

Shame Dingwall's form hasn't been that good tbh.

Mark Atkinson's another who's a bit unlucky not to have been given a chance, and Sam James too.
But if Borthers doesn't drop Smith to the bench and move his outstanding captain to 10, then this is all pointless speculation, innit?

I think picking Smith AND Farrell again would be rather daft. After their performance against Scotland it is vital to have an alternative, any alternative, for when we meet France and Ireland. Now is the time for change.

[FKAS]

Kelly not available so SB is left with Hobsons choice at 12.
Farrell again, an over the hill Tuilagi or out of position Slade or Lawrence.
Its not a choice to relish.

Shame Dingwall's form hasn't been that good tbh.

Mark Atkinson's another who's a bit unlucky not to have been given a chance, and Sam James too.
But if Borthers doesn't drop Smith to the bench and move his outstanding captain to 10, then this is all pointless speculation, innit?

Didn't Mark Atkinson have an absolute shocker against the Baabaas or is my memory deserting me?

Sam James is one I'm really surprised doesn't have more caps. His size and skill set makes him a really useful player at Prem Level, surely at least worth a look.

[rjjb]

Telegraph & Independent (websites) both hinting at a very different back three on Sunday. Not sure what it's based on - spot the bibs?

[oldprussians]

I think Farrell will get a red card

[Margin_Walker]

Yeah, think it's just spot the bibs. In the training shots today Arundell and Slade were wearing white bibs, which seemed to be worn by first team types. Steward noticeably was in the 'others' blue bib.

Could be indicative of a change, or could be absolutely nothing. Just what they were wearing for a run of plays.

[ckeyn]

Willis in the frame to start ahead of B Curry. Times suggesting Watson too.

[Mellsblue]

Sinfield has made a big thing of letting the players know who will be in the team and training as that team at the front end of the week. Bibs may be a better indicator than under other regimes.

[Puja]

Willis in the frame to start ahead of B Curry. Times suggesting Watson too.

I haven't rewatched the whole game yet, but I think Curry's unlucky if he's the one making way. Out of the back row against Scotland, the order from worst to best was Dombrandt, Isiekwe, Curry, Earl, gap, Ludlam.

Puja

[Puja]

Sinfield has made a big thing of letting the players know who will be in the team and training as that team at the front end of the week. Bibs may be a better indicator than under other regimes.

I do like that. There's surely not a huge amount to be gained by subterfuge and the benefits to team cohesion must be immense.

Puja

[Danno]

Willis in the frame to start ahead of B Curry. Times suggesting Watson too.

I haven't rewatched the whole game yet, but I think Curry's unlucky if he's the one making way. Out of the back row against Scotland, the order from worst to best was Dombrandt, Isiekwe, Curry, Earl, gap, Ludlam.

Puja

Would switch Dombrandt and Isiekwe (doing something better than literally nothing)

[p/d]

9. Given up caring
10. Either or
12. Lawrence
13. Slade

Back 3 of Watson, Arundell and Steward

Bosh. Job done

[SixAndAHalf]

1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole (Sinckler)
4. Itoje
5. Chessum
6. Willis (Ludlam)
7. Earl (Willis)
8. Ludlam (Dombrandt)

9. JvP
10. Farrell
11. Freeman (Arundell)
12. Manu
13. Slade
14. Watson
15. Steward

16. Walker
17. Rodd
18. Sinckler (Cole)
19. Ribbans
20. Dombrandt (Earl)
21. Mitchell
22. Smith
23. Arundell (OHC)

Brackets = Borthers picks

We miss Ford. And also need Mercer back asap - unconvinced by Dombrandt as an international.

[Banquo]

1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole (Sinckler)
4. Itoje
5. Chessum
6. Willis (Ludlam)
7. Earl (Willis)
8. Ludlam (Dombrandt)

9. JvP
10. Farrell
11. Freeman (Arundell)
12. Manu
13. Slade
14. Watson
15. Steward

16. Walker
17. Rodd
18. Sinckler (Cole)
19. Ribbans
20. Dombrandt (Earl)
21. Mitchell
22. Smith
23. Arundell (OHC)

Brackets = Borthers picks

We miss Ford. And also need Mercer back asap - unconvinced by Dombrandt as an international.

pretty much. Good to see you back!

[Danno]

We're in a right fucking mess aren't we.

No depth in the front row.
One lock guaranteed to start. And he's taking a lot of grief (I happen to agree in general - not the player he was, or currently should be)
Can't make a decision in the back row if Curry (T) goes down
Half backs. Lol.
Midfield. Just not funny any more.
Wings....?
FB. Stew's taking flak for his last line of def now.

Bench. Well, see above.

[Banquo]

We're in a right fucking mess aren't we.

yes and no. Yes because we are short of excellent players and wedded still to the notion that the likes of Farrell are key; no because we do have some very good established players, and some emerging talent, and as per morecambe and wise we just have to get them in the right order!

Should be able to build a side round Genge, Sinckler, Itoje, Chessum, Ribbans, Hills, Currys, Willis's, JVP, Smiths, Freeman Watson, Arundell, Lawrence, Slade, Marchant, Steward.....and hopefully others improve and emerge.

[Spiffy]

We're in a right fucking mess aren't we.

yes and no. Yes because we are short of excellent players and wedded still to the notion that the likes of Farrell are key; no because we do have some very good established players, and some emerging talent, and as per morecambe and wise we just have to get them in the right order!

Should be able to build a side round Genge, Sinckler, Itoje, Chessum, Ribbans, Hills, Currys, Willis's, JVP, Smiths, Freeman Watson, Arundell, Lawrence, Slade, Marchant, Steward.....and hopefully others improve and emerge.

You have listed some very talented players there and it certainly should be possible to build a good team around that kind of core. Still - a lot of them are no better than their established or emerging counterparts in other 6N teams, so any kind of physical or skill advantage to England is not evident at present. More important, the real key is to get them playing cohesively and developing a team approach where they are comfortable with each other and with the game plan, and understand their specific roles. Most great teams in the past have been more than the sum of the parts. This seems to be England's major problem at the moment. They don't appear to know how they want to play the game; and they are bogged down with a few poor but key selections that they seem unwilling to change.

[Oakboy]

We're in a right fucking mess aren't we.

yes and no. Yes because we are short of excellent players and wedded still to the notion that the likes of Farrell are key; no because we do have some very good established players, and some emerging talent, and as per morecambe and wise we just have to get them in the right order!

Should be able to build a side round Genge, Sinckler, Itoje, Chessum, Ribbans, Hills, Currys, Willis's, JVP, Smiths, Freeman Watson, Arundell, Lawrence, Slade, Marchant, Steward.....and hopefully others improve and emerge.

Do you see any international future for Ford and Lawes? Injuries have excluded them but might one argue that should injuries to others put them back in the 10/6 shirts the overall standard of the team would improve?

SB does have the dilemma of short-term results v building a team. Assuming everyone was fit, for a one-off, must-win game tomorrow, I'd start Marler, Lawes and Ford at 1, 6, 10 (and I've never been a Ford fan). Scrum, line-out and game management would improve immediately with those three on the pitch.

[p/d]

no room for 12t?

[Banquo]

We're in a right fucking mess aren't we.

yes and no. Yes because we are short of excellent players and wedded still to the notion that the likes of Farrell are key; no because we do have some very good established players, and some emerging talent, and as per morecambe and wise we just have to get them in the right order!

Should be able to build a side round Genge, Sinckler, Itoje, Chessum, Ribbans, Hills, Currys, Willis's, JVP, Smiths, Freeman Watson, Arundell, Lawrence, Slade, Marchant, Steward.....and hopefully others improve and emerge.

You have listed some very talented players there and it certainly should be possible to build a good team around that kind of core. Still - a lot of them are no better than their established or emerging counterparts in other 6N teams, so any kind of physical or skill advantage to England is not evident at present. More important, the real key is to get them playing cohesively and developing a team approach where they are comfortable with each other and with the game plan, and understand their specific roles. Most great teams in the past have been more than the sum of the parts. This seems to be England's major problem at the moment. They don't appear to know how they want to play the game; and they are bogged down with a few poor but key selections that they seem unwilling to change.

I didn't make any claim of superiority, but they should be able to perform well. My morecambe/wise reference is indeed a reference to selecting the right players and getting them doing the right things, and said wedded to the likes of Farrell. So we agree

[Mikey Brown]

Mercer the convincing international... he's got some skills but it's not like he Tom Willis or Dan Kelly.

[Banquo]

We're in a right fucking mess aren't we.

yes and no. Yes because we are short of excellent players and wedded still to the notion that the likes of Farrell are key; no because we do have some very good established players, and some emerging talent, and as per morecambe and wise we just have to get them in the right order!

Should be able to build a side round Genge, Sinckler, Itoje, Chessum, Ribbans, Hills, Currys, Willis's, JVP, Smiths, Freeman Watson, Arundell, Lawrence, Slade, Marchant, Steward.....and hopefully others improve and emerge.

Do you see any international future for Ford and Lawes? Injuries have excluded them but might one argue that should injuries to others put them back in the 10/6 shirts the overall standard of the team would improve?

SB does have the dilemma of short-term results v building a team. Assuming everyone was fit, for a one-off, must-win game tomorrow, I'd start Marler, Lawes and Ford at 1, 6, 10 (and I've never been a Ford fan). Scrum, line-out and game management would improve immediately with those three on the pitch.

Fair on Lawes and Ford, I just missed them. Marler just seems to be a bit of a d*ck these days so not sure worth the effort.

[ckeyn]

Freeman at 12 eventually? Saw some online commentary on the idea. Size, handling; runs a good line and a good inside defender.

[Mellsblue]

The problem with that is he’s potentially a world class wing.