Eng U20s 2023

[Oakboy]

Did we start with the right front row? The replacement trio looked somewhat stronger.

In fairness, the replacements got to deal with knackered Italian starters and then the Italian subs who looked much weaker. Fasogbon does look like he might turn into something special though - only 18 and he's so good already.

Though Italy had another good crop of youngsters - the props and the big number 7 especially. They really have got their production line in order over the past 5 years. This RWC they're doomed by their group, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're not quarter finalists at 2027.

Puja

I hesitate to touch the subject but has someone in Italy switched recruitment plans to look for black players? Their forwards looked to be superb, strong individuals. Their starting props dwarfed our white ones. Maybe, it's a question of players from different backgrounds being brought into the game? Whether it's accidental or deliberate policy, if potential is fulfilled, the Italian pack is going to be formidable in 3 or 4 years' time.

[Puja]

Did we start with the right front row? The replacement trio looked somewhat stronger.

In fairness, the replacements got to deal with knackered Italian starters and then the Italian subs who looked much weaker. Fasogbon does look like he might turn into something special though - only 18 and he's so good already.

Though Italy had another good crop of youngsters - the props and the big number 7 especially. They really have got their production line in order over the past 5 years. This RWC they're doomed by their group, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're not quarter finalists at 2027.

Puja

I hesitate to touch the subject but has someone in Italy switched recruitment plans to look for black players? Their forwards looked to be superb, strong individuals. Their starting props dwarfed our white ones. Maybe, it's a question of players from different backgrounds being brought into the game? Whether it's accidental or deliberate policy, if potential is fulfilled, the Italian pack is going to be formidable in 3 or 4 years' time.

The same thought had occurred to me, so you're not alone - there did seem to be more black players than are statistically likely in Italy, although that could just be a random quirk of this age group. (ETA. Did a quick google to see if my knowledge of stats was right and black people make up under 0.5% of the Italian population, so I was right, although one age group is so small a sample size as to be laughed at by any statistician)

I know that Italian football is pretty racist and it might be that rugby is attracting players from different backgrounds who feel like football isn't a welcoming sport for them. Although the recent revelation of the racism that Traore suffered can't really have helped if that is the image the sport is looking to purvey.

Puja

[FKAS]

Italy's geographic location means that it's multicultural and we are probably seeing second generation youngsters come through from those that fled Africa in the 90s. Italy has taken in a lot of people from a lot of different cultures. As you say they might have found football not particularly welcoming and rugby more so.

Can only be a good thing for the sport in the country to be reaching more varied areas of the community. I read something a couple of years ago that hosting the international rugby games was very popular amongst cities in Italy because of the amount of tourism it brought but with minimal policing and disruption compared to hosting even a lowe league football game. If the Italian national team is seen to be representing all the communities in the country then that will only create more demand.

[fivepointer]

Lots to like about that from England last night. The scrum was something else though. Those Italian starting props were absolutely first rate.
Fisilau again looked highly impressive, Ma'asi-White was excellent and Bracken very tidy.
The group should take a lot of confidence from their 2 wins.
Hats off to the young ref. We dont always get great reffing at this level but i thought he had a very good game.

[Oakboy]

Lots to like about that from England last night. The scrum was something else though. Those Italian starting props were absolutely first rate.
Fisilau again looked highly impressive, Ma'asi-White was excellent and Bracken very tidy.
The group should take a lot of confidence from their 2 wins.
Hats off to the young ref. We dont always get great reffing at this level but i thought he had a very good game.

Interesting what you say about the ref. I'm inclined to agree when I think about his decision-making objectively. He was a bit fussy in attitude, not using three words if ten would do. Add the Welsh accent and I allowed myself to be irritated. You are right, though, in reflection. (With you and Banquo educating me, maybe I'll be right about something one of these days!!!!)

[FKAS]

I liked the refs communication, he was making a real effort to tell the players what he wanted to see. He was a bit inexperienced so there was some odd calls and a lack of consistency. Had he successfully talked himself into that red card for Hathaway like he seemed to be then I'd have had a different opinion but generally he was fine. I liked he actually spotted some of the offsides from the retreating scrum which are generally ignored.

[stepsider]

Ref based many decisions on Italy's starting scrum smashing ours into pieces. That's OK provided that he didn't allow this to influence other calls such as the Hatherway incident. But TBF he allowed himself to be persuaded that it wasn't a red.

Agree, Bracken looks a chip off the old block. With more possession we'd have run in a few more tries.

[fivepointer]

Only one change for tomorrows game. Woodman comes into back row in place of Cunningham-South.

[Galfon]

Wales back in it after silly flap at x-kick by winger.
Strong showing till then.Yellae fair enough but pen. try seems homey-ish.14-22 at break.

[Mr Mwenda]

Good result in the end. Poor english place kicking kept Wales in it. A bit disappointed the tmo didn't look at the headlock that sparked the brawl after the final England try.

[Oakboy]

The Welsh co-commentator was the most one-eyed, twisted interpreter of facts that I have ever heard. One incident near the end he blamed the English full back for reacting to a neck-roll/high tackle by the Welsh winger after the act of scoring. Bizarre.

Fine performance by the lads. A good balanced side with few weaknesses. I really like the centre pairing and the back row.

[stepsider]

The Welsh co-commentator was the most one-eyed, twisted interpreter of facts that I have ever heard. One incident near the end he blamed the English full back for reacting to a neck-roll/high tackle by the Welsh winger after the act of scoring. Bizarre.

Fine performance by the lads. A good balanced side with few weaknesses. I really like the centre pairing and the back row.

Good win in the end, England again looked slick when moving the ball, referee excellent IMO

[stepsider]

Agree, Welsh commentators not good

[Mr Mwenda]

The Welsh co-commentator was the most one-eyed, twisted interpreter of facts that I have ever heard. One incident near the end he blamed the English full back for reacting to a neck-roll/high tackle by the Welsh winger after the act of scoring. Bizarre.

Yes, I assumed they asked someone in the crowd if they fancied a turn on the mic.

[Epaminondas Pules]

A few good performances but for me I was massively impressed with Joe Woodward. Had a very classy game, try aside. Lots of good moments.

[Margin_Walker]

Yeah, I thought that whole midfield 10-12-13 axis worked really well. Had a bit of everything in terms of balance. Woodward definitely glued it together.

[stepsider]

A few good performances but for me I was massively impressed with Joe Woodward. Had a very classy game, try aside. Lots of good moments.

He looks a real tough nut, ball carrying, hard running/tackling centre. Always suspected that having experienced a complete absence of such no.12s, English rugby would suddenly discover several at once.

[Margin_Walker]

Highlights

[Epaminondas Pules]

Yeah, I thought that whole midfield 10-12-13 axis worked really well. Had a bit of everything in terms of balance. Woodward definitely glued it together.

Thought Bradbury had his best game also. Seemed freer. Also noticeable how much Woodward took first receiver role.

[Margin_Walker]

Yeah, I thought that whole midfield 10-12-13 axis worked really well. Had a bit of everything in terms of balance. Woodward definitely glued it together.

Thought Bradbury had his best game also. Seemed freer. Also noticeable how much Woodward took first receiver role.

I thought so to. Really growing into the role after not being in the EPS initially. He's one of those that could go either way development wise. He's a real distributing ten and can pass really well off both hands. LI are probably a good fit for him style wise if he does kick on.

Always liked watching him playing for Wellington, so good to see him putting in performances here.

They did share it a fair bit. Worked really well for the Elliot try off first phase.

[FKAS]

A few good performances but for me I was massively impressed with Joe Woodward. Had a very classy game, try aside. Lots of good moments.

He looks a real tough nut, ball carrying, hard running/tackling centre. Always suspected that having experienced a complete absence of such no.12s, English rugby would suddenly discover several at once.

Woodward played a bit of flyhalf when he was younger so should have the kicking and distribution game. I've been impressed by how he's adding a physical edge to those nice skills.

[Oakboy]

I agree with the praise of Bradbury and Woodward, especially. Both seemed to understand how to get the best out of M-White and the balance of the trio presented a superb platform for the back three to feed off. Also, as the back-line gelled more and more, Bracken at SH, was content to simply zip out quick ball with the occasional pressure-relieving box kick. I hope nobody interprets that rugby-inelligence (not to take on anything himself unnecessarily) as him having a 'quieter game' or whatever.

It was a sophisticated performance by a group of youngsters. It was not perfect. Nobody would expect that of course.

[Banquo]

Liked the 13 always straightening his/the line, handling overall looked good in the highlights.

[fivepointer]

Enjoying this team this year very much. When they move the ball, they look really slick and dangerous.
9 through to 13 are excellent. I like Harris save for the odd daft moment. Lads got talent.
Fisilau is a sensationally good player. Everything he does is purposeful and effective.
I noticed Brian Ashton with the coaches and bringing him in is a very smart move.

[Carter1989]

Liked the 13 always straightening his/the line, handling overall looked good in the highlights.

Maasi White looks excellent doesn't he. Very self aware, both in game and who he is. He knows hes big and someone they'll need to mark, so his handling and the IQ of knowing what to do at the right moments, he's really good at.