Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm

[Puja]

SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.

I'm really not sure either of them are ready for primetime yet. We're so keen to have a natural 12 that we see the best in everything they do and elide the bad moments.

Puja

what's a natural 12, out of interest?

In this instance, someone who plays there for his club and counts it as their position, rather than the latest in the line of "Sure, I bet he *could* do it. He's got the basic skills for it."

Puja

[Banquo]

I'm really not sure either of them are ready for primetime yet. We're so keen to have a natural 12 that we see the best in everything they do and elide the bad moments.

Puja

what's a natural 12, out of interest?

In this instance, someone who plays there for his club and counts it as their position, rather than the latest in the line of "Sure, I bet he *could* do it. He's got the basic skills for it."

Puja

Definitely a start .

[Mikey Brown]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.

I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George Martin.

Agreed it’s a big day for the Harlequins 8-9-10 combo. We all know Marchant can’t defend like big Sladesey-o so there’s a bit less drama there.

[Puja]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.

I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George Martin.

From watching him play in his biggest step up so far - Leinster away - it's a little underwhelming but pleasing - he's not got an ego to making big tackles, so he's very unlikely to try and outmasculine a big runner and risk getting bounced. Much more likely to just take his legs away from him.

Puja

[jngf]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.

I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)

[FKAS]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.

I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George Martin.

From watching him play in his biggest step up so far - Leinster away - it's a little underwhelming but pleasing - he's not got an ego to making big tackles, so he's very unlikely to try and outmasculine a big runner and risk getting bounced. Much more likely to just take his legs away from him.

Puja

I rather like having a big tackling player that prefers to cut the opposition in half and use leg drive to take them backwards than follow the rugby league style hit them at chest level, target the ball and knock them into next week approach. Given the tightening up on high tackles it really is more sensible.

[FKAS]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.

I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)

Morgan is primarily an openside. Think Hamish Watson style pin ball carries. Wainwright is playing 8 for Wales at the weekend.

[Mikey Brown]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.

I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)

This is a fantastic illustration of why people tend to base their opinions on the actions of players on the pitch, rather than the heights and weights that you read about online.

Would you rather tackle Billy Twelvetrees or Scott Gibbs?

[jngf]

I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)

This is a fantastic illustration of why people tend to base their opinions on the actions of players on the pitch, rather than the heights and weights that you read about online.

Would you rather tackle Billy Twelvetrees or Scott Gibbs?

I think all I’m stating is Jac Morgan doesn’t have anything like the power of George Martin and it’s hard to divorce that from their respective vital statistics

[Mellsblue]

I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)

This is a fantastic illustration of why people tend to base their opinions on the actions of players on the pitch, rather than the heights and weights that you read about online.

Would you rather tackle Billy Twelvetrees or Scott Gibbs?

Scott Gibbs in his 50s now so… 12T.

[MrK]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.

It’s not that mobile a pack- and outside of Stuart the Welsh front 5 is heavier than the England opposite number (on paper)

I’m not a size = power advocate, but out front row has been picked for scrummaging, not mobility.

Be interesting to see how it goes. Tshiunza needs a big game to make the 33.

Looking forward to seeing Llewelyn and hopefully Grady at some point.

For us it’s more about trying to find combinations and a game plan that at least gets us out of the group following a terrible 12 months.

I know it’s easy to say, and of course I always want to win, but if we put in a competitive performance and the new caps look comfortable I’ll take that .. if we get a dicking of course, i don’t know where we go

[FKAS]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.

It’s not that mobile a pack- and outside of Stuart the Welsh front 5 is heavier than the England opposite number (on paper)

I’m not a size = power advocate, but out front row has been picked for scrummaging, not mobility.

Be interesting to see how it goes. Tshiunza needs a big game to make the 33.

Looking forward to seeing Llewelyn and hopefully Grady at some point.

For us it’s more about trying to find combinations and a game plan that at least gets us out of the group following a terrible 12 months.

I know it’s easy to say, and of course I always want to win, but if we put in a competitive performance and the new caps look comfortable I’ll take that .. if we get a dicking of course, i don’t know where we go

I was basing the mobile thing on seeing Rowlands, Jenkins and Christ play in the Prem. Happy to be corrected on the props, don't know much about them. Interesting if Wales target the scrum as England's tight five is pretty hefty for us. I'd expect them to be fairly secure at scrum time. If they aren't then we're going to have problems.

I think England will be more looking for some form and ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch as opposed to particular combinations.

[16th man]

ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch

Hang on, aren't we supposed to hide those things so that no one can think about them?

Anything more advanced than one out then boot it in the air is tantamount to giving a full press conference on all our backs moves.

[Puja]

ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch

Hang on, aren't we supposed to hide those things so that no one can think about them?

Anything more advanced than one out then boot it in the air is tantamount to giving a full press conference on all our backs moves.

That's why Eddie's ahead of the game in losing all four of his pre-RWC matches - he ain't shown nobody nuffink.

Puja

[FKAS]

ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch

Hang on, aren't we supposed to hide those things so that no one can think about them?

Anything more advanced than one out then boot it in the air is tantamount to giving a full press conference on all our backs moves.

That's why Eddie's ahead of the game in losing all four of his pre-RWC matches - he ain't shown nobody nuffink.

Puja

When the Aussies come out playing like the rugby equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters we're all going to look rather silly for thinking he was past his best and merely talking shite to the media to try and explain away years of (at best) average rugby.

[Mellsblue]

ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch

Hang on, aren't we supposed to hide those things so that no one can think about them?

Anything more advanced than one out then boot it in the air is tantamount to giving a full press conference on all our backs moves.

That is our backs move…

[16th man]

The French appear to have contracted whatever brain malaise it is we have that makes us kick through every time we're within 10 metres of the line.

[Mellsblue]

Fark me. The Habana Sage advert is back.

[Mr Mwenda]

C'mon England, take it to 'em!

[Danno]

Andy Goode

[Mr Mwenda]

The simple England kit is good.

[16th man]

Bloody hell, blocking a chaser getting pinged.

[16th man]

Ribbans not trying to catch it we can forgive, no idea what Porter thought he was doing.

[jngf]

Ludlam & Pearson playing left and right flanker system. Ribbans at tighthead lock and Martin at loose head lock. Good looking combinations so far.

[Mellsblue]

Coka still shoite under the high ball then