Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm

[francoisfou]

If two-try Guy lives up to his name then England should coast home and give Stevie Blinder some real selection headaches over the weekend.

[FKAS]

just find it odd that you can hazard a selection guess in a scratch side. How you can judge say Porter v Marchant when they are playing different positions, ditto Ludlam v Pearson, even locks.

Yep. Direct competition playing alongside eachother and has enough of a Barbarians vibe to make it feel basically pointless as a barometer of form. I mean is Porter at 12 a thing that's really worth spending time on?

It's hard to picture getting a good picture of what Willis can do in 25 minutes off the bench. Hopefully Borthwick has some sort of plan for making the most of game time in these warmups, but I'm far less interested in this game now.

He's a utility option so makes sense to try him in a few different positions, see if he's worth having in the 23 shirt. I imagine he'll be one of those dropped but interesting to see how he gets on. Gives hope we might see an actual centre at 12 although that does come with the negative of Farrell at 10.

[Mellsblue]

utility
/juːˈtɪlɪti,jʊˈtɪlɪti/
See definitions in:

1.the state of being useful, profitable, or beneficial.

Interested to know how the RFU are making a profit from Porter

[FKAS]

utility
/juːˈtɪlɪti,jʊˈtɪlɪti/
See definitions in:

1.the state of being useful, profitable, or beneficial.

Interested to know how the RFU are making a profit from Porter

It's all those extra sponsorship deals they landed after he became a part of the team. Huge draw on the commercial side of things clearly.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Seeing Porter in there keeps my hopes alive for my call up to the squad. I mean I’m 47 and shit, but I can’t be that far off if he’s a potential World Cup squad member!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Otherwise lovely to see Martin in there. I think he’ll make the final cut. Proper bit of power behind the THP, and a shit tonne of work rate. Big chance for Dan to add some dynamism. Likewise in cameo for Willis over the lazy lad.

Should be fun if a little loose and error strewn.

Of note, Porter cannot be off his tackles with Llewelyn at 12!

Two proper attacking 10s, which is ace to see!

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I just don't see what use his versatility is at the level he can offer.

Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.

Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Yeah I just don't see what use his versatility is at the level he can offer.

Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.

Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.

Totally. It’s not a position I’d stress for another makeshift square peg. Not with what’s in the squad.

[Mellsblue]

utility
/juːˈtɪlɪti,jʊˈtɪlɪti/
See definitions in:

1.the state of being useful, profitable, or beneficial.

Interested to know how the RFU are making a profit from Porter

It's all those extra sponsorship deals they landed after he became a part of the team. Huge draw on the commercial side of things clearly.

The sponsors love nothing more than an underdog story. The Cool Runnings of rugby.

[Beasties]

just find it odd that you can hazard a selection guess in a scratch side. How you can judge say Porter v Marchant when they are playing different positions, ditto Ludlam v Pearson, even locks.

Yep. Direct competition playing alongside eachother and has enough of a Barbarians vibe to make it feel basically pointless as a barometer of form. I mean is Porter at 12 a thing that's really worth spending time on?

It's hard to picture getting a good picture of what Willis can do in 25 minutes off the bench. Hopefully Borthwick has some sort of plan for making the most of game time in these warmups, but I'm far less interested in this game now.

Ruck side looked far more interesting.

[Mellsblue]

just find it odd that you can hazard a selection guess in a scratch side. How you can judge say Porter v Marchant when they are playing different positions, ditto Ludlam v Pearson, even locks.

Yep. Direct competition playing alongside eachother and has enough of a Barbarians vibe to make it feel basically pointless as a barometer of form. I mean is Porter at 12 a thing that's really worth spending time on?

It's hard to picture getting a good picture of what Willis can do in 25 minutes off the bench. Hopefully Borthwick has some sort of plan for making the most of game time in these warmups, but I'm far less interested in this game now.

Ruck side looked far more interesting.

It did. I was really up for the match after seeing that lineup…

[Doofus]

I agree, hopefully the leaked ruck side was a game ahead of themselves and we will see it on the 12th?

I'm not adverse to this side being a bit more experimental to give the premiership players a bit more time to rest (barring Malins which is just weird given the other players in that position available) and to get the debutants and newer combinations on the field prior to final squad selection.

If he'd picked a side of known quantities we'd all be screaming for Sandy Biggleswade to have tried out the newbies given it it counts for F-All...

[FKAS]

Yeah I just don't see what use his versatility is at the level he can offer.

Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.

Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.

Totally. It’s not a position I’d stress for another makeshift square peg. Not with what’s in the squad.

Is he a square peg at 12? I'm not convinced he's an international centre but then our centre stocks are far from convincing. Slade didn't start a game at 12 last season and the season before that only for the five 6N games. Farrell we know is an issue and moving him to 12 is the least worst option of him starting but he isn't a good 12. Manu and Lawrence are the only options at 12 if we intend to play an actual 12 there and Manu is a sick note.

I'm still expecting Porter to be released back to Tigers but his inclusion at 12 does suit his skill set and offers the backline some go forward.

[Puja]

Yeah I just don't see what use his versatility is at the level he can offer.

Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.

Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.

Totally. It’s not a position I’d stress for another makeshift square peg. Not with what’s in the squad.

Is he a square peg at 12? I'm not convinced he's an international centre but then our centre stocks are far from convincing. Slade didn't start a game at 12 last season and the season before that only for the five 6N games. Farrell we know is an issue and moving him to 12 is the least worst option of him starting but he isn't a good 12. Manu and Lawrence are the only options at 12 if we intend to play an actual 12 there and Manu is a sick note.

I'm still expecting Porter to be released back to Tigers but his inclusion at 12 does suit his skill set and offers the backline some go forward.

Lawrence doesn't actually play 12 for anyone but England as well. Porter's probably got the most recent experience as a Premiership 12, after Manu.

Not that I'd have him in the squad either, but it's not an outlandish selection purely from a position point of view.

Puja

[fivepointer]

SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.

[FKAS]

SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.

I'd have liked Atkinson and Kelly to have at least had some time in training camp. At 21 and 22 they've got plenty of time on their side.

Hopefully the backline sees a bit of a refresh post world cup.

[Mellsblue]

I think the square peg in round hole is reference to picking a non-test quality player in a test team, not a 13 at 12…

[Mellsblue]

Sandy Biggleswade

What a first post.

[Peej]

Looking forward to seeing Pearson go, and Tom Willis off the bench. If Pearson does do well then J Willis could have a nervous time of it.

[Danno]

SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.

Welcome to the 21st century England rugby team

[Puja]

SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.

I'm really not sure either of them are ready for primetime yet. We're so keen to have a natural 12 that we see the best in everything they do and elide the bad moments.

Puja

[Banquo]

SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.

I'm really not sure either of them are ready for primetime yet. We're so keen to have a natural 12 that we see the best in everything they do and elide the bad moments.

Puja

what's a natural 12, out of interest?

[Which Tyler]

I suspect the answer to that is "not Farrell"

[Mellsblue]

[FKAS]

This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.

Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.

I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.