Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
If two-try Guy lives up to his name then England should coast home and give Stevie Blinder some real selection headaches over the weekend.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
He's a utility option so makes sense to try him in a few different positions, see if he's worth having in the 23 shirt. I imagine he'll be one of those dropped but interesting to see how he gets on. Gives hope we might see an actual centre at 12 although that does come with the negative of Farrell at 10.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:46 pmYep. Direct competition playing alongside eachother and has enough of a Barbarians vibe to make it feel basically pointless as a barometer of form. I mean is Porter at 12 a thing that's really worth spending time on?
It's hard to picture getting a good picture of what Willis can do in 25 minutes off the bench. Hopefully Borthwick has some sort of plan for making the most of game time in these warmups, but I'm far less interested in this game now.
- Mellsblue
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
utility
/juːˈtɪlɪti,jʊˈtɪlɪti/
See definitions in:
1.the state of being useful, profitable, or beneficial.
Interested to know how the RFU are making a profit from Porter
/juːˈtɪlɪti,jʊˈtɪlɪti/
See definitions in:
1.the state of being useful, profitable, or beneficial.
Interested to know how the RFU are making a profit from Porter

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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
It's all those extra sponsorship deals they landed after he became a part of the team. Huge draw on the commercial side of things clearly.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Seeing Porter in there keeps my hopes alive for my call up to the squad. I mean I’m 47 and shit, but I can’t be that far off if he’s a potential World Cup squad member!
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Otherwise lovely to see Martin in there. I think he’ll make the final cut. Proper bit of power behind the THP, and a shit tonne of work rate. Big chance for Dan to add some dynamism. Likewise in cameo for Willis over the lazy lad.
Should be fun if a little loose and error strewn.
Of note, Porter cannot be off his tackles with Llewelyn at 12!
Two proper attacking 10s, which is ace to see!
Should be fun if a little loose and error strewn.
Of note, Porter cannot be off his tackles with Llewelyn at 12!
Two proper attacking 10s, which is ace to see!
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Yeah I just don't see what use his versatility is at the level he can offer.
Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.
Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.
Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.
Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Totally. It’s not a position I’d stress for another makeshift square peg. Not with what’s in the squad.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:28 pm Yeah I just don't see what use his versatility is at the level he can offer.
Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.
Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Ruck side looked far more interesting.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:46 pmYep. Direct competition playing alongside eachother and has enough of a Barbarians vibe to make it feel basically pointless as a barometer of form. I mean is Porter at 12 a thing that's really worth spending time on?
It's hard to picture getting a good picture of what Willis can do in 25 minutes off the bench. Hopefully Borthwick has some sort of plan for making the most of game time in these warmups, but I'm far less interested in this game now.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
It did. I was really up for the match after seeing that lineup…Beasties wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:33 pmRuck side looked far more interesting.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:46 pmYep. Direct competition playing alongside eachother and has enough of a Barbarians vibe to make it feel basically pointless as a barometer of form. I mean is Porter at 12 a thing that's really worth spending time on?
It's hard to picture getting a good picture of what Willis can do in 25 minutes off the bench. Hopefully Borthwick has some sort of plan for making the most of game time in these warmups, but I'm far less interested in this game now.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
I agree, hopefully the leaked ruck side was a game ahead of themselves and we will see it on the 12th?
I'm not adverse to this side being a bit more experimental to give the premiership players a bit more time to rest (barring Malins which is just weird given the other players in that position available) and to get the debutants and newer combinations on the field prior to final squad selection.
If he'd picked a side of known quantities we'd all be screaming for Sandy Biggleswade to have tried out the newbies given it it counts for F-All...
I'm not adverse to this side being a bit more experimental to give the premiership players a bit more time to rest (barring Malins which is just weird given the other players in that position available) and to get the debutants and newer combinations on the field prior to final squad selection.
If he'd picked a side of known quantities we'd all be screaming for Sandy Biggleswade to have tried out the newbies given it it counts for F-All...
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Is he a square peg at 12? I'm not convinced he's an international centre but then our centre stocks are far from convincing. Slade didn't start a game at 12 last season and the season before that only for the five 6N games. Farrell we know is an issue and moving him to 12 is the least worst option of him starting but he isn't a good 12. Manu and Lawrence are the only options at 12 if we intend to play an actual 12 there and Manu is a sick note.Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:32 pmTotally. It’s not a position I’d stress for another makeshift square peg. Not with what’s in the squad.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:28 pm Yeah I just don't see what use his versatility is at the level he can offer.
Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.
Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.
I'm still expecting Porter to be released back to Tigers but his inclusion at 12 does suit his skill set and offers the backline some go forward.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Lawrence doesn't actually play 12 for anyone but England as well. Porter's probably got the most recent experience as a Premiership 12, after Manu.FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:14 pmIs he a square peg at 12? I'm not convinced he's an international centre but then our centre stocks are far from convincing. Slade didn't start a game at 12 last season and the season before that only for the five 6N games. Farrell we know is an issue and moving him to 12 is the least worst option of him starting but he isn't a good 12. Manu and Lawrence are the only options at 12 if we intend to play an actual 12 there and Manu is a sick note.Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:32 pmTotally. It’s not a position I’d stress for another makeshift square peg. Not with what’s in the squad.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:28 pm Yeah I just don't see what use his versatility is at the level he can offer.
Lawrence, Tuilagi and Slade have all played 12. Daly and Marchant can play centre and wing. Farrell can cover 12 if somehow that needs to happen. I just can't picture a situation where we're in such dire need of a wing/centre that we want to sacrifice someone better.
Obviously this ignores the fact that Borthwick rates him much higher than I do.
I'm still expecting Porter to be released back to Tigers but his inclusion at 12 does suit his skill set and offers the backline some go forward.
Not that I'd have him in the squad either, but it's not an outlandish selection purely from a position point of view.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
I'd have liked Atkinson and Kelly to have at least had some time in training camp. At 21 and 22 they've got plenty of time on their side.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:36 pm SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.
Hopefully the backline sees a bit of a refresh post world cup.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
I think the square peg in round hole is reference to picking a non-test quality player in a test team, not a 13 at 12…
Last edited by Mellsblue on Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Looking forward to seeing Pearson go, and Tom Willis off the bench. If Pearson does do well then J Willis could have a nervous time of it.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Welcome to the 21st century England rugby teamfivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:36 pm SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
I'm really not sure either of them are ready for primetime yet. We're so keen to have a natural 12 that we see the best in everything they do and elide the bad moments.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:36 pm SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.
Puja
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
what's a natural 12, out of interest?Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:13 pmI'm really not sure either of them are ready for primetime yet. We're so keen to have a natural 12 that we see the best in everything they do and elide the bad moments.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:36 pm SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.
Puja
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
I suspect the answer to that is "not Farrell"
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Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.