Glos V Bath Friday

[Banquo]

I thought we were completely over 12s who can pass.

how would we know?

[Epaminondas Pules]

I thought we were completely over 12s who can pass. Atkinson is quite good through contact in general?

To be fair after having had Farrell there for so long anyone else’s hands are just going to look inadequate.

Yeah decent through contact. Takes a hard line well and has very good leg drive. Looks to me like he’s got the full package to take the next step.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Really enjoyable game I thought. Both sides opting to play a bit with plenty of enterprise, good movement and skilful attacking. Glos very good early on but faltered in the 2nd half as Bath came on strong. Underhill and Reid impressed.
Both young 12's had their moments and overall did well. I really like Atkinson's passing - his timing is just immaculate. Ojomoh runs some good lines and seemed to be on Russell's wavelength.

Unfortunately, IMO, the best 12 on view was playing at 13 for Bath!

I thought he looked a lot better at 13 with a bit more space to work in. Allowed him more one on one tackles where he could fend and use a step rather than just dropping his shoulder into two tacklers.

I thought Seb Atkinson looked classy as usual. Range of passing, carried well in traffic when he had to and made his tackles. Couple of errors but he was heavily involved. Ojomoh looked good as well, think he'll thrive alongside Russell. He's got a nice range of skills.

Totally agree on Lawrence.


I’d give Atkinson extra marks as he wasn’t playing outside Finn

Also stepped in at first receiver a lot. In a losing side he really stood out.

[p/d]

Seb and Ollie……. That is exactly what we should be looking at. Playing outside Smithy

[Puja]

From an England perspective, Underhill was superb and Will Muir continues to be someone who deserves a look at international level. Barbeary was rubbish today - really disappointing with upright carrying into set targets. Looked like a player believing his own press and expecting to make metres in contact when they were set and ready for him (although full marks to the Glaws defence for so efficiently shutting him down).

On the battle of the EQ 12s, Ojomoh looked the more promising, although neither were particularly error-free. I think they're both worth having a look at, but more as works-in-progress than as the solution to our centre woes.

Puja

Barbeary did lots of very good things. His tight work was excellent as was his nuts and bolts in the breakdown. Very harshly penalised early in the first half. Yes a few upright carries but he was nothing like rubbish!

On Barbeary the off the ball tackle was not nice, but just afterwards it did look like his leg was targeted again with a low no arms close to the line. Hopefully he’s ok. Sad part for me is some Tigers fans on social media saying he milked it! Cause taking an exorcet to the knee / thigh is nothing!

I thought Atkinson was excellent. His hands were very good with a wide range of passing. Positionally he was very good and his decision making excellent.

Muir is probably unlucky that there are a long list of wingers worth looking at. None of which really sets the world alight but are all very good prem players.

I thought Barbeary was done for when I saw that off the ball tackle. Looked like an absolute knee ligament destroyer, especially cause he was blindsided and didn't have time to brace. Was so glad when he was able to play on.

Puja

[Puja]

Seb and Ollie……. That is exactly what we should be looking at. Playing outside Smithy

A midfield of Marcus, Sebastian, and Oliver. Just when we were getting worried that we weren't picking anyone but private schoolboys.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Unfortunately, IMO, the best 12 on view was playing at 13 for Bath!

[p/d]

Seb and Ollie……. That is exactly what we should be looking at. Playing outside Smithy

A midfield of Marcus, Sebastian, and Oliver. Just when we were getting worried that we weren't picking anyone but private schoolboys.

Puja

Company for Theodor

[FKAS]

I thought we were completely over 12s who can pass. Atkinson is quite good through contact in general?

To be fair after having had Farrell there for so long anyone else’s hands are just going to look inadequate.

Yeah decent through contact. Takes a hard line well and has very good leg drive. Looks to me like he’s got the full package to take the next step.

He's not a big guy but it's impressive how well he does in defence and carrying on those hard lines. Down to good technique and not just bulk. Seb Atkinson really should be in the 6N conversation.

[Epaminondas Pules]

From an England perspective, Underhill was superb and Will Muir continues to be someone who deserves a look at international level. Barbeary was rubbish today - really disappointing with upright carrying into set targets. Looked like a player believing his own press and expecting to make metres in contact when they were set and ready for him (although full marks to the Glaws defence for so efficiently shutting him down).

On the battle of the EQ 12s, Ojomoh looked the more promising, although neither were particularly error-free. I think they're both worth having a look at, but more as works-in-progress than as the solution to our centre woes.

Puja

Barbeary did lots of very good things. His tight work was excellent as was his nuts and bolts in the breakdown. Very harshly penalised early in the first half. Yes a few upright carries but he was nothing like rubbish!

On Barbeary the off the ball tackle was not nice, but just afterwards it did look like his leg was targeted again with a low no arms close to the line. Hopefully he’s ok. Sad part for me is some Tigers fans on social media saying he milked it! Cause taking an exorcet to the knee / thigh is nothing!

I thought Atkinson was excellent. His hands were very good with a wide range of passing. Positionally he was very good and his decision making excellent.

Muir is probably unlucky that there are a long list of wingers worth looking at. None of which really sets the world alight but are all very good prem players.

I thought Barbeary was done for when I saw that off the ball tackle. Looked like an absolute knee ligament destroyer, especially cause he was blindsided and didn't have time to brace. Was so glad when he was able to play on.

Puja

If he gets away from that and the subsequent no arms tackle without any injury then he’s done very well!!

[Epaminondas Pules]

I thought we were completely over 12s who can pass. Atkinson is quite good through contact in general?

To be fair after having had Farrell there for so long anyone else’s hands are just going to look inadequate.

Yeah decent through contact. Takes a hard line well and has very good leg drive. Looks to me like he’s got the full package to take the next step.

He's not a big guy but it's impressive how well he does in defence and carrying on those hard lines. Down to good technique and not just bulk. Seb Atkinson really should be in the 6N conversation.

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Seb and Ollie……. That is exactly what we should be looking at. Playing outside Smithy

A midfield of Marcus, Sebastian, and Oliver. Just when we were getting worried that we weren't picking anyone but private schoolboys.

Puja

Has to be Raffi at 9 then

[Puja]

To be fair after having had Farrell there for so long anyone else’s hands are just going to look inadequate.

Yeah decent through contact. Takes a hard line well and has very good leg drive. Looks to me like he’s got the full package to take the next step.

He's not a big guy but it's impressive how well he does in defence and carrying on those hard lines. Down to good technique and not just bulk. Seb Atkinson really should be in the 6N conversation.

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

I still think people are seeing all the good bits and eliding the bad bits from their memory because they want an answer at 12. No-one's noted the time he killed an overlap with a pass that stopped Harris dead, or the time he passed to the floor in the backfield and nearly gave away a try, or the time he forced a pass that was never on to turn the ball over after a break, or the time he passed without looking and it went to a Bath player. Instead, it's lauding of some tidy bits of play which were good, but hardly incredible. He did well, but there wasn't anything from last night that made me go "that's an international player right there."

This sounds like I don't like him or don't rate him - I absolutely do and I really want to see him for England. But "no obvious flaws" and "stand out 12 candidate" just feels like desperation to me, same as with the reviews of Kelly whenever he does just functional 12 play.

Puja

[Puja]

Seb and Ollie……. That is exactly what we should be looking at. Playing outside Smithy

A midfield of Marcus, Sebastian, and Oliver. Just when we were getting worried that we weren't picking anyone but private schoolboys.

Puja

Has to be Raffi at 9 then

Trying to work out if Raphael or Raffi is posher. Either way, I think this XV is the best chance for Henry to oust Fred from full-back.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

A midfield of Marcus, Sebastian, and Oliver. Just when we were getting worried that we weren't picking anyone but private schoolboys.

Puja

Has to be Raffi at 9 then

Trying to work out if Raphael or Raffi is posher. Either way, I think this XV is the best chance for Henry to oust Fred from full-back.

Puja

There are rumours emanating from the East Midlands that Steward would now like to be known as Fredrick and that he is related to both Prince Albert and the Hapsburgs and is therefore of royal blood.

[Mikey Brown]

To be fair after having had Farrell there for so long anyone else’s hands are just going to look inadequate.

Yeah decent through contact. Takes a hard line well and has very good leg drive. Looks to me like he’s got the full package to take the next step.

He's not a big guy but it's impressive how well he does in defence and carrying on those hard lines. Down to good technique and not just bulk. Seb Atkinson really should be in the 6N conversation.

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

I do love a good high ceiling.

I really like the little glimpses I’ve seen. It’s hard to think about the next steps without it becoming a Farrell/Tuilagi discussion though.

[Oakboy]

He's not a big guy but it's impressive how well he does in defence and carrying on those hard lines. Down to good technique and not just bulk. Seb Atkinson really should be in the 6N conversation.

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

I do love a good high ceiling.

I really like the little glimpses I’ve seen. It’s hard to think about the next steps without it becoming a Farrell/Tuilagi discussion though.

MB, it's not just a discussion, though. It needs a head-coach with the balls to accept that neither player has an international future at 12 - forcing himself to have to find one.

[FKAS]

He's not a big guy but it's impressive how well he does in defence and carrying on those hard lines. Down to good technique and not just bulk. Seb Atkinson really should be in the 6N conversation.

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

I still think people are seeing all the good bits and eliding the bad bits from their memory because they want an answer at 12. No-one's noted the time he killed an overlap with a pass that stopped Harris dead, or the time he passed to the floor in the backfield and nearly gave away a try, or the time he forced a pass that was never on to turn the ball over after a break, or the time he passed without looking and it went to a Bath player. Instead, it's lauding of some tidy bits of play which were good, but hardly incredible. He did well, but there wasn't anything from last night that made me go "that's an international player right there."

This sounds like I don't like him or don't rate him - I absolutely do and I really want to see him for England. But "no obvious flaws" and "stand out 12 candidate" just feels like desperation to me, same as with the reviews of Kelly whenever he does just functional 12 play.

Puja

He does make mistakes but he's also 21 and touches the ball a lot with the current Glaws system. He's clearly a classy player that is operating under pressure and delivering more often than not. He should be in camp getting exposure and learning. If he shows enough to get a game then great if he doesn't then he might learn something. I'm of the same opinion with Kelly. Got to get them some exposure and it's not like we have a large selection of experienced centres available after Marchant's move to France.

[Mikey Brown]

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

I do love a good high ceiling.

I really like the little glimpses I’ve seen. It’s hard to think about the next steps without it becoming a Farrell/Tuilagi discussion though.

MB, it's not just a discussion, though. It needs a head-coach with the balls to accept that neither player has an international future at 12 - forcing himself to have to find one.

Ha. That’s the discussion I was referring to.

We basically all agree on here, there’s not a lot of convincing to be done. But it’s really going to be a matter of wait and see whether Borthwick makes any bold moves towards the future.

[Epaminondas Pules]

He's not a big guy but it's impressive how well he does in defence and carrying on those hard lines. Down to good technique and not just bulk. Seb Atkinson really should be in the 6N conversation.

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

I still think people are seeing all the good bits and eliding the bad bits from their memory because they want an answer at 12. No-one's noted the time he killed an overlap with a pass that stopped Harris dead, or the time he passed to the floor in the backfield and nearly gave away a try, or the time he forced a pass that was never on to turn the ball over after a break, or the time he passed without looking and it went to a Bath player. Instead, it's lauding of some tidy bits of play which were good, but hardly incredible. He did well, but there wasn't anything from last night that made me go "that's an international player right there."

This sounds like I don't like him or don't rate him - I absolutely do and I really want to see him for England. But "no obvious flaws" and "stand out 12 candidate" just feels like desperation to me, same as with the reviews of Kelly whenever he does just functional 12 play.

Puja

That’s just a bunch of mistakes as opposed to flaws. Maybe decision making in there. It’s not like he’s weak left to right, or tackle technique.

And I’m not sure any other 12 is putting their hand up really, with the bank of last season form. Kelly is a bit all over the place the last couple of games. Ojomoh had a good game. Northmore injured. Hendrickson ok.

[p/d]

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

I still think people are seeing all the good bits and eliding the bad bits from their memory because they want an answer at 12. No-one's noted the time he killed an overlap with a pass that stopped Harris dead, or the time he passed to the floor in the backfield and nearly gave away a try, or the time he forced a pass that was never on to turn the ball over after a break, or the time he passed without looking and it went to a Bath player. Instead, it's lauding of some tidy bits of play which were good, but hardly incredible. He did well, but there wasn't anything from last night that made me go "that's an international player right there."

This sounds like I don't like him or don't rate him - I absolutely do and I really want to see him for England. But "no obvious flaws" and "stand out 12 candidate" just feels like desperation to me, same as with the reviews of Kelly whenever he does just functional 12 play.

Puja

That’s just a bunch of mistakes as opposed to flaws. Maybe decision making in there. It’s not like he’s weak left to right, or tackle technique.

And I’m not sure any other 12 is putting their hand up really, with the bank of last season form. Kelly is a bit all over the place the last couple of games. Ojomoh had a good game. Northmore injured. Hendrickson ok.

When Glaws got duly stuffed by Leinster he still caught the eye. Unlucky ‘technical infringement’ yellow but his defence and heads up rugby was top notch for a 20yr old.

A classy player

[Banquo]

100%! He’s the stand out 12 candidate. No obvious flaws and what appears to be a very high ceiling.

I still think people are seeing all the good bits and eliding the bad bits from their memory because they want an answer at 12. No-one's noted the time he killed an overlap with a pass that stopped Harris dead, or the time he passed to the floor in the backfield and nearly gave away a try, or the time he forced a pass that was never on to turn the ball over after a break, or the time he passed without looking and it went to a Bath player. Instead, it's lauding of some tidy bits of play which were good, but hardly incredible. He did well, but there wasn't anything from last night that made me go "that's an international player right there."

This sounds like I don't like him or don't rate him - I absolutely do and I really want to see him for England. But "no obvious flaws" and "stand out 12 candidate" just feels like desperation to me, same as with the reviews of Kelly whenever he does just functional 12 play.

Puja

That’s just a bunch of mistakes as opposed to flaws. Maybe decision making in there. It’s not like he’s weak left to right, or tackle technique.

And I’m not sure any other 12 is putting their hand up really, with the bank of last season form. Kelly is a bit all over the place the last couple of games. Ojomoh had a good game. Northmore injured. Hendrickson ok.

Justice 4 dingers

[Epaminondas Pules]

I still think people are seeing all the good bits and eliding the bad bits from their memory because they want an answer at 12. No-one's noted the time he killed an overlap with a pass that stopped Harris dead, or the time he passed to the floor in the backfield and nearly gave away a try, or the time he forced a pass that was never on to turn the ball over after a break, or the time he passed without looking and it went to a Bath player. Instead, it's lauding of some tidy bits of play which were good, but hardly incredible. He did well, but there wasn't anything from last night that made me go "that's an international player right there."

This sounds like I don't like him or don't rate him - I absolutely do and I really want to see him for England. But "no obvious flaws" and "stand out 12 candidate" just feels like desperation to me, same as with the reviews of Kelly whenever he does just functional 12 play.

Puja

That’s just a bunch of mistakes as opposed to flaws. Maybe decision making in there. It’s not like he’s weak left to right, or tackle technique.

And I’m not sure any other 12 is putting their hand up really, with the bank of last season form. Kelly is a bit all over the place the last couple of games. Ojomoh had a good game. Northmore injured. Hendrickson ok.

Justice 4 dingers

Very fair point well made. Dingwall is quality.

[FKAS]

That’s just a bunch of mistakes as opposed to flaws. Maybe decision making in there. It’s not like he’s weak left to right, or tackle technique.

And I’m not sure any other 12 is putting their hand up really, with the bank of last season form. Kelly is a bit all over the place the last couple of games. Ojomoh had a good game. Northmore injured. Hendrickson ok.

Justice 4 dingers

Very fair point well made. Dingwall is quality.

He's 24 now, over the hill there's newer hopes...

[Which Tyler]

Isn't Dingwall another "not an IC" though?