gaza conflict

[Son of Mathonwy]

Jared Kushner finding a new low: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... rael-negev

Puja

Christ, why is it so easy to imagine that soulless cunt looking for profitable opportunities during slavery, or the holocaust?

[paddy no 11]

Killing 6 westerners getting more traction politically than 33k Palestinians

4 ngos gone from gaza because of it, the genocide progresses at pace

[Son of Mathonwy]

See how we leap to the defence of one of the best-defended nations on Earth, assisting Israel against an attack which killed no one. How many Israeli missiles have we shot down in the defence of Gaza?

Sickening.

[paddy no 11]

See how we leap to the defence of one of the best-defended nations on Earth, assisting Israel against an attack which killed no one. How many Israeli missiles have we shot down in the defence of Gaza?

Sickening.

An attack the Iranians told everyone was going to happen, christ I even posted it here and we're basically at pony express pace

[Son of Mathonwy]

See how we leap to the defence of one of the best-defended nations on Earth, assisting Israel against an attack which killed no one. How many Israeli missiles have we shot down in the defence of Gaza?

Sickening.

An attack the Iranians told everyone was going to happen, christ I even posted it here and we're basically at pony express pace

One reason for not intervening in Gaza is that we might end up shooting down armaments with Made in Britain stamped on them.. It's not a reason that makes us look good though. It's the sort of conundrum you face when you sell arms knowing they're being used for war crimes.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ns-isfahan

Key points, bolded what I consider the most important bit:

• US officials have confirmed that Israel has carried out military operations against Iran. The officials said Israel warned the Biden administration earlier on Thursday that a strike was coming in the next 24 to 48 hours. According to CNN, the Israelis assured their US counterparts that Iran's nuclear facilities would not be targeted.

• Iranian state media reported that air defence batteries had been activated after reports of explosions near a major airbase close to the city of Isfahan. The Iranian government appeared to play down the scale of the attack, with a senior commander in Iran's army saying there was no damage in Isfahan, according to state TV.

• Isfahan is home to sites associated with Iran's nuclear program, including its underground Natanz enrichment site. State television described all sites in the area as "fully safe".

ETA: Live updates page here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ns-isfahan

[Son of Mathonwy]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ns-isfahan

Key points, bolded what I consider the most important bit:

• US officials have confirmed that Israel has carried out military operations against Iran. The officials said Israel warned the Biden administration earlier on Thursday that a strike was coming in the next 24 to 48 hours. According to CNN, the Israelis assured their US counterparts that Iran's nuclear facilities would not be targeted.

• Iranian state media reported that air defence batteries had been activated after reports of explosions near a major airbase close to the city of Isfahan. The Iranian government appeared to play down the scale of the attack, with a senior commander in Iran's army saying there was no damage in Isfahan, according to state TV.

• Isfahan is home to sites associated with Iran's nuclear program, including its underground Natanz enrichment site. State television described all sites in the area as "fully safe".

ETA: Live updates page here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ns-isfahan

Hopefully the Iranians can write this off as trivial and things can chill a bit.

[paddy no 11]

Yes, could they just shoot a few air guns across the border at each other and get on with you know living in peace

[Puja]

Everyone remember the allegation that UNRWA employees were involved in the October 7th attacks on Israel and were actively part of Hamas? The ones that everyone believed without question, because why would anyone possibly accuse an aid and disaster relief organisation of being involved with terrorism if it wasn't true? The ones that resulted in most major donors withdrawing support for the organisation that was the main channel of humanitarian support for the people of Gaza, just as the starvation and deprivation caused by the military action really started to kick in?

Yeah, turns out that there has been zero evidence provided of this and that “the Israeli government has not informed Unrwa of any concerns relating to any Unrwa staff based on these staff lists [provided to Israel for vetting on a yearly basis] since 2011”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... nna-report

The Netanyahu government is truly beyond the pale.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Everyone remember the allegation that UNRWA employees were involved in the October 7th attacks on Israel and were actively part of Hamas? The ones that everyone believed without question, because why would anyone possibly accuse an aid and disaster relief organisation of being involved with terrorism if it wasn't true? The ones that resulted in most major donors withdrawing support for the organisation that was the main channel of humanitarian support for the people of Gaza, just as the starvation and deprivation caused by the military action really started to kick in?

Yeah, turns out that there has been zero evidence provided of this and that “the Israeli government has not informed Unrwa of any concerns relating to any Unrwa staff based on these staff lists [provided to Israel for vetting on a yearly basis] since 2011”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... nna-report

The Netanyahu government is truly beyond the pale.

Puja

Damn, that's Sunak's excuse gone. How long will he drag his feet before resuming funding aid to prevent starvation?

[paddy no 11]

Should be added to the genocide case

[Son of Mathonwy]

On the London march again. Corbyn was in Hyde Park. To think he could actually be prime minister now* . . . how different would our policy be.

* you may not all see that as a good alternative to Johnson/Truss/Sunak of course.

[cashead]

Perhaps, but Corbyn was a very poor leader and as well-intentioned as he may have been, there's no way a Labour government under him wouldn't have been anything other than an utter shambles.

He couldn't even keep his party in line, how do you expect him to run a country?

[Son of Mathonwy]

Perhaps, but Corbyn was a very poor leader and as well-intentioned as he may have been, there's no way a Labour government under him wouldn't have been anything other than an utter shambles.

He couldn't even keep his party in line, how do you expect him to run a country?

Yeah well, for the record I disagree with most of that but it's all pretty subjective and unprovable either way.

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, aside from Ukraine and Gaza, it's tough to see what Corbin could possibly have done worse than Johnson/Truss/Sunak.

That's a hell of an "aside" though.

What would have likely meant though, is a 1-term labour government, before the conservatives returned, probably with Johnson at the helm and probably with less tory infighting (having been able to unite against a common enemy for a few years)

[Sandydragon]

Perhaps, but Corbyn was a very poor leader and as well-intentioned as he may have been, there's no way a Labour government under him wouldn't have been anything other than an utter shambles.

He couldn't even keep his party in line, how do you expect him to run a country?

Johnson, for all his many and obvious faults, was one of those at the forefront of supporting Ukraine. Corbyn would not have supported Ukraine to the same degree, or at all. Corbyn's natural home is at a protest rally, not as a prime minister of what is still a major power.

[Sandydragon]

Yeah, aside from Ukraine and Gaza, it's tough to see what Corbin could possibly have done worse than Johnson/Truss/Sunak.

That's a hell of an "aside" though.

What would have likely meant though, is a 1-term labour government, before the conservatives returned, probably with Johnson at the helm and probably with less tory infighting (having been able to unite against a common enemy for a few years)

Quite likely. And since we know that Corbyn was quite pro-Brexit, you can't even suggest that would have been better.

[Puja]

Yeah, aside from Ukraine and Gaza, it's tough to see what Corbin could possibly have done worse than Johnson/Truss/Sunak.

That's a hell of an "aside" though.

What would have likely meant though, is a 1-term labour government, before the conservatives returned, probably with Johnson at the helm and probably with less tory infighting (having been able to unite against a common enemy for a few years)

Quite likely. And since we know that Corbyn was quite pro-Brexit, you can't even suggest that would have been better.

Mind, pro-Brexit from a leftist "We'll subsidise things if we want to and damn your regulations" perspective is a very different kettle of fish to "Brexit means Brexit" and leaving the EEC/Euratom/Erasmus/everything that even mentions the word Europe that we ended up with.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Yeah, aside from Ukraine and Gaza, it's tough to see what Corbin could possibly have done worse than Johnson/Truss/Sunak.

That's a hell of an "aside" though.

What would have likely meant though, is a 1-term labour government, before the conservatives returned, probably with Johnson at the helm and probably with less tory infighting (having been able to unite against a common enemy for a few years)

Quite likely. And since we know that Corbyn was quite pro-Brexit, you can't even suggest that would have been better.

Mind, pro-Brexit from a leftist "We'll subsidise things if we want to and damn your regulations" perspective is a very different kettle of fish to "Brexit means Brexit" and leaving the EEC/Euratom/Erasmus/everything that even mentions the word Europe that we ended up with.

Puja

If Corbyn had won there'd have been a second referendum (probably much delayed by Covid), so we might have avoided that shitshow completely. And if it had still gone ahead it would have been much softer, probably Norway-style.

[Sandydragon]

Quite likely. And since we know that Corbyn was quite pro-Brexit, you can't even suggest that would have been better.

Mind, pro-Brexit from a leftist "We'll subsidise things if we want to and damn your regulations" perspective is a very different kettle of fish to "Brexit means Brexit" and leaving the EEC/Euratom/Erasmus/everything that even mentions the word Europe that we ended up with.

Puja

If Corbyn had won there'd have been a second referendum (probably much delayed by Covid), so we might have avoided that shitshow completely. And if it had still gone ahead it would have been much softer, probably Norway-style.

Which is also conjecture but he had the opportunity to help deliver a softer Brexit prior to the Boris landslide, and he was also conspicuously absent from the Brexit debate during the referendum, so given the shit show that leaving has become, that undermines the credibility of his judgement.

[Puja]

Mind, pro-Brexit from a leftist "We'll subsidise things if we want to and damn your regulations" perspective is a very different kettle of fish to "Brexit means Brexit" and leaving the EEC/Euratom/Erasmus/everything that even mentions the word Europe that we ended up with.

Puja

If Corbyn had won there'd have been a second referendum (probably much delayed by Covid), so we might have avoided that shitshow completely. And if it had still gone ahead it would have been much softer, probably Norway-style.

he had the opportunity to help deliver a softer Brexit prior to the Boris landslide

Would you care to extrapolate on that?

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Mind, pro-Brexit from a leftist "We'll subsidise things if we want to and damn your regulations" perspective is a very different kettle of fish to "Brexit means Brexit" and leaving the EEC/Euratom/Erasmus/everything that even mentions the word Europe that we ended up with.

Puja

If Corbyn had won there'd have been a second referendum (probably much delayed by Covid), so we might have avoided that shitshow completely. And if it had still gone ahead it would have been much softer, probably Norway-style.

Which is also conjecture but he had the opportunity to help deliver a softer Brexit prior to the Boris landslide, and he was also conspicuously absent from the Brexit debate during the referendum, so given the shit show that leaving has become, that undermines the credibility of his judgement.

Sure, this is conjectural, but we know it was Labour's policy to have a 2nd referendum, so had he won that was very likely to have happened. Not totally sure he had an opportunity to bring about a softer Brexit with May - she was dead set on a hard Brexit, that was what stopped those discussions getting anywhere in mid-2019. Of course Corbyn's absence from the referendum debate wasn't great but the judgement of everyone who has run the country since 2019 has even less credibility, for the same reason.

[Donny osmond]

If Corbyn had won there'd have been a second referendum (probably much delayed by Covid), so we might have avoided that shitshow completely. And if it had still gone ahead it would have been much softer, probably Norway-style.

Which is also conjecture but he had the opportunity to help deliver a softer Brexit prior to the Boris landslide, and he was also conspicuously absent from the Brexit debate during the referendum, so given the shit show that leaving has become, that undermines the credibility of his judgement.

Sure, this is conjectural, but we know it was Labour's policy to have a 2nd referendum, so had he won that was very likely to have happened. Not totally sure he had an opportunity to bring about a softer Brexit with May - she was dead set on a hard Brexit, that was what stopped those discussions getting anywhere in mid-2019. Of course Corbyn's absence from the referendum debate wasn't great but the judgement of everyone who has run the country since 2019 has even less credibility, for the same reason.

There is not 1 person alive who's judgement has less credibility than Corbyn. May was not dead set on a hard Brexit at all, she wanted a 2nd referendum before any withdrawal agreement was enacted; it was the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party who did for her.

This level of revisionism really needs to stop.

[cashead]

Perhaps, but Corbyn was a very poor leader and as well-intentioned as he may have been, there's no way a Labour government under him wouldn't have been anything other than an utter shambles.

He couldn't even keep his party in line, how do you expect him to run a country?

Yeah well, for the record I disagree with most of that but it's all pretty subjective and unprovable either way.

His own MPs were telling him, in Parliament, to fuck off already. I wouldn't trust the guy to run a stand at a fucking carnival, let alone the UK.

Disagreements will always happen, but for party discipline to collapse to the point where he couldn't keep that shit behind closed doors, while his MPs were calling him a fuckface to his face in public? Come on, bro.

Johnson, for all his many and obvious faults, was one of those at the forefront of supporting Ukraine. Corbyn would not have supported Ukraine to the same degree, or at all. Corbyn's natural home is at a protest rally, not as a prime minister of what is still a major power.

Corbyn calling for Ukraine to be stripped of their ability to resist the Russian invasion in any meaningful way on a Russian propaganda outlet is a matter of record. I said it before, but he is either incapable of differentiating between the friendly old socialists and the Russian Disinformation Squad Allstars - or is entirely complicit and endorses their views.

[Stom]

Perhaps, but Corbyn was a very poor leader and as well-intentioned as he may have been, there's no way a Labour government under him wouldn't have been anything other than an utter shambles.

He couldn't even keep his party in line, how do you expect him to run a country?

Yeah well, for the record I disagree with most of that but it's all pretty subjective and unprovable either way.

His own MPs were telling him, in Parliament, to fuck off already. I wouldn't trust the guy to run a stand at a fucking carnival, let alone the UK.

Disagreements will always happen, but for party discipline to collapse to the point where he couldn't keep that shit behind closed doors, while his MPs were calling him a fuckface to his face in public? Come on, bro.

Johnson, for all his many and obvious faults, was one of those at the forefront of supporting Ukraine. Corbyn would not have supported Ukraine to the same degree, or at all. Corbyn's natural home is at a protest rally, not as a prime minister of what is still a major power.

Corbyn calling for Ukraine to be stripped of their ability to resist the Russian invasion in any meaningful way on a Russian propaganda outlet is a matter of record. I said it before, but he is either incapable of differentiating between the friendly old socialists and the Russian Disinformation Squad Allstars - or is entirely complicit and endorses their views.

Oh, he's just rather dense. Not sure he's the intellect to be anything else.

No gray for Jeremy, the world is black and white...

He became leader of the Labour party as a representation of something the Labour party should be representing. Not because of who he was.