Which is also conjecture but he had the opportunity to help deliver a softer Brexit prior to the Boris landslide, and he was also conspicuously absent from the Brexit debate during the referendum, so given the shit show that leaving has become, that undermines the credibility of his judgement.
Sure, this is conjectural, but we know it was Labour's policy to have a 2nd referendum, so had he won that was very likely to have happened. Not totally sure he had an opportunity to bring about a softer Brexit with May - she was dead set on a hard Brexit, that was what stopped those discussions getting anywhere in mid-2019. Of course Corbyn's absence from the referendum debate wasn't great but the judgement of everyone who has run the country since 2019 has even less credibility, for the same reason.
There is not 1 person alive who's judgement has less credibility than Corbyn. May was not dead set on a hard Brexit at all, she wanted a 2nd referendum before any withdrawal agreement was enacted; it was the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party who did for her.
This level of revisionism really needs to stop.
Hyperbole perhaps? Unless you mean Piers Corbyn?
To be clear, obviously May was a remainer. Given a free choice she would not have had Brexit at all. But in 2019 (of course, because of pressure within the party) she was set on a hard Brexit.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 5:56 pm
Sure, this is conjectural, but we know it was Labour's policy to have a 2nd referendum, so had he won that was very likely to have happened. Not totally sure he had an opportunity to bring about a softer Brexit with May - she was dead set on a hard Brexit, that was what stopped those discussions getting anywhere in mid-2019. Of course Corbyn's absence from the referendum debate wasn't great but the judgement of everyone who has run the country since 2019 has even less credibility, for the same reason.
There is not 1 person alive who's judgement has less credibility than Corbyn. May was not dead set on a hard Brexit at all, she wanted a 2nd referendum before any withdrawal agreement was enacted; it was the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party who did for her.
This level of revisionism really needs to stop.
Hyperbole perhaps? Unless you mean Piers Corbyn?
To be clear, obviously May was a remainer. Given a free choice she would not have had Brexit at all. But in 2019 (of course, because of pressure within the party) she was set on a hard Brexit.
perhaps I mean, talking of shit judgement, I've been watching the SNP talk up John Swinney as an effective politician all week, and if that isn't a triumph of hope over experience I don't know what is.
May was only "set on hard Brexit" as a tool to try and control the Tory party, hahahaha, not for its own sake.
It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
This isn't the most serious point but I was surprised to see Israel get the highest audience/televote score in Eurovision (much higher than its vote from the juries). I thought they'd get some flack from Gaza, but no, if anything the opposite (although maybe it was a well orchestrated vote from Israel fans). Ukraine got a pretty high sympathy vote. UK got nothing from the audience vote.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 10:33 am
This isn't the most serious point but I was surprised to see Israel get the highest audience/televote score in Eurovision (much higher than its vote from the juries). I thought they'd get some flack from Gaza, but no, if anything the opposite (although maybe it was a well orchestrated vote from Israel fans). Ukraine got a pretty high sympathy vote. UK got nothing from the audience vote.
It was rigged - at least in the sense that one person can vote multiple times, and they have a very large diaspora.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 10:33 am
This isn't the most serious point but I was surprised to see Israel get the highest audience/televote score in Eurovision (much higher than its vote from the juries). I thought they'd get some flack from Gaza, but no, if anything the opposite (although maybe it was a well orchestrated vote from Israel fans). Ukraine got a pretty high sympathy vote. UK got nothing from the audience vote.
It was rigged - at least in the sense that one person can vote multiple times, and they have a very large diaspora.
Yeah, a sufficiently motivated group can dominate it.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 10:33 am
This isn't the most serious point but I was surprised to see Israel get the highest audience/televote score in Eurovision (much higher than its vote from the juries). I thought they'd get some flack from Gaza, but no, if anything the opposite (although maybe it was a well orchestrated vote from Israel fans). Ukraine got a pretty high sympathy vote. UK got nothing from the audience vote.
It was rigged - at least in the sense that one person can vote multiple times, and they have a very large diaspora.
Yeah, a sufficiently motivated group can dominate it.
Lot of islamophobia coalesced into 1 country's vote
Or alternatively people liked the song and had some sympathy with the singer who was getting constant crap from other performers all week. None of the fighting is her fault.
Since many Jews aren’t necessarily Zionist outside of Israel is there any reason to suggest that they would have automatically voted for Israel?
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 8:09 pm
Or alternatively people liked the song and had some sympathy with the singer who was getting constant crap from other performers all week. None of the fighting is her fault.
Since many Jews aren’t necessarily Zionist outside of Israel is there any reason to suggest that they would have automatically voted for Israel?
And frankly our entry deserves nil points.
Plenty to say the Israeli entourage were the agitators - unless we were there we Don't really know
Not her fault but she has said she can't wait to go home and participate in the ethnic cleansing........
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 8:09 pm
Or alternatively people liked the song and had some sympathy with the singer who was getting constant crap from other performers all week. None of the fighting is her fault.
Since many Jews aren’t necessarily Zionist outside of Israel is there any reason to suggest that they would have automatically voted for Israel?
And frankly our entry deserves nil points.
The truth is that there was obviously an organized, dedicated effort by Israel supporters to give their votes to Golan in the face of intense threats and hatred, and it clearly drew votes from many who don’t otherwise tune into the Eurovision each year.
paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:30 am
Ireland and Norway formally recognise a Palestinian state, Spain to follow suit in next hour. Slovenia and Malta in the short term.
Not political heavyweights by any means
It's brilliant news.
Naturally the UK is quick to say that now is not the right time. Because the right time is when the USA say it's the right time. Which is probably never.
paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:30 am
Ireland and Norway formally recognise a Palestinian state, Spain to follow suit in next hour. Slovenia and Malta in the short term.
Not political heavyweights by any means
It's brilliant news.
Naturally the UK is quick to say that now is not the right time. Because the right time is when the USA say it's the right time. Which is probably never.
Macron could take a flyer on this, would be huge to have 1 of the large Central European states on board. Germany thinks 2 wrongs make a right and Britain in no rush to rescue their own cluster fuck from a 100 years ago
paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:30 am
Ireland and Norway formally recognise a Palestinian state, Spain to follow suit in next hour. Slovenia and Malta in the short term.
Not political heavyweights by any means
It's brilliant news.
Naturally the UK is quick to say that now is not the right time. Because the right time is when the USA say it's the right time. Which is probably never.
Macron could take a flyer on this, would be huge to have 1 of the large Central European states on board. Germany thinks 2 wrongs make a right and Britain in no rush to rescue their own cluster fuck from a 100 years ago
Australia could follow soon also
Germany supplies 30% of Israel's arms imports, so they will have nothing to do with this.
But there's a fair chance of a large number of non-western countries getting on board.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 11:30 am
It's brilliant news.
Naturally the UK is quick to say that now is not the right time. Because the right time is when the USA say it's the right time. Which is probably never.
Macron could take a flyer on this, would be huge to have 1 of the large Central European states on board. Germany thinks 2 wrongs make a right and Britain in no rush to rescue their own cluster fuck from a 100 years ago
Australia could follow soon also
Germany supplies 30% of Israel's arms imports, so they will have nothing to do with this.
But there's a fair chance of a large number of non-western countries getting on board.
There's already 143 plus the latest, so most of the non west tbh
Macron could take a flyer on this, would be huge to have 1 of the large Central European states on board. Germany thinks 2 wrongs make a right and Britain in no rush to rescue their own cluster fuck from a 100 years ago
Australia could follow soon also
Germany supplies 30% of Israel's arms imports, so they will have nothing to do with this.
But there's a fair chance of a large number of non-western countries getting on board.
There's already 143 plus the latest, so most of the non west tbh
Unless you mean Piers Corbyn?
I mean, talking of shit judgement, I've been watching the SNP talk up John Swinney as an effective politician all week, and if that isn't a triumph of hope over experience I don't know what is.
