England A v Australia A

[Scrumhead]

I guess it depends how big the squad is and how much fringe players in the senior squad may switch across for this game.

I see where @Puja is coming from re. the props but personally I feel like there are other, slightly older players who it would be useful to put in this environment.

I’d be looking at something like:

1. Iyogun / Brantingham
2. Blake / Oghre
3. Harper / Fasogbon (or Sela)
4. Isiekwe / Sodeke (or Bailey)
5. Tuima / Tizard
6. Hill / Carnduff
7. B. Curry / Pepper
8. Barbeary / Fisilau
9. Quirke / Englefield
10. C. Atkinson / Johnson
11. Murley / Ibitoye
12. S. Atkinson / Kelly
13. Joseph / Beard
14. Roebuck / Hendy
15. Carpenter / Hodge

I’m assuming Kpoku will be unavailable? If not, I’d have him over Sodeke or Bailey.

I put Hendy as a wing option to mirror the senior team’s set up of one smaller, tricky winger and one bigger, aerial option.

I also tried to put in a few club combinations like Hill and Barbeary or the Atkinsons.

Justice for Dingwall. I think he'd be great for an 'a' team with his experience.

Right now I think Dingwall is probably 2nd choice for 12 and 13 so I would expect him to be retained by the senior squad as a travelling reserve even if he’s not in the 23.

So in my mind, the reason I didn’t include him was more of a compliment than a slight …

That said, it’s a bit of an unfortunate place to be. He’s not likely to make the 23 but also too useful to be in the A squad. Arguably he’d have a better chance to press his claim by playing a key role for the A side.

The only players I thought might drop down were Ben Curry, Roebuck and Carpenter because they’re almost certainly 3rd or 4th choice in their positions and very unlikely to make the main 23. Not an anti-Sale bias.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Quins’ midfield this season. I’m half expecting to see Northmore at 12 with Joseph at 13. If it works, that could be for both Quins and England.

[Oakboy]

The comparison was nothing more than an eg that pace isn’t a necessity to be a test 12 if everything else is there. I’d agree that Dingwall isn’t in Greenwood’s class but who of the options is?

I'd see little point in picking Dingwall unless the management is convinced that he can improve significantly beyond what he's shown so far.

What if they think he can only improve slightly but he has a higher ceiling than the other IC options? It’s hard to argue he wasn’t the best EQ IC in the Prem this season.

Well, if he starts at 12 in the AIs, SB may well agree with you. If SB leaves him out, perhaps not.

[Oakboy]

One thing that does standout, for me, was that he was exceptional in Saints’ end of season knockout matches. Test match animal, innit.

So, SB could/should pick the whole Saints back line? As an integral part of that, maybe Dingwall could step up. Dropping Marcus, Lawrence, Slade and IFW though?

[Banquo]

Greenwood had a weird lolloping style that I think made him look a bit slower than he was, still not particularly fast but his vision and skills with the ball were simply lightyears ahead of anything I've seen from Dingwall. It's unfair to single out Dingwall specifically as being less skilled than Greenwood, but I don't really get the comparison. Greenwood had outstanding skills at the top level

I like Dingwall as a player but he looks a bit short of a particular standout skill. I do wish we'd given him another game during the 6 nations to try and settle in, but a partnership with Slade has never seemed like it would be threatening enough. There might be more balance with Lawrence/Freeman at 13 but they'd need to be trusted to run the defence. I agree he gels the Northampton midfield together very well, but without those other parts around him it's a much bigger ask for him to come in and make his mark as a 6/10 player.

I definitely agree that 12. Lawrence 13. Slade is missing something also.

Its weird that Dingwall's skills with the ball aren't recognised, or that he has a complete centre skill set, something that in itself has become a standout. That said, he could do with either being a bit faster or a bit bigger. But he has great vision and rugby intelligence, that's his USP.

But, in fairness, what you are saying about x factor was his work on from Eddie.

[Banquo]

The comparison was nothing more than an eg that pace isn’t a necessity to be a test 12 if everything else is there. I’d agree that Dingwall isn’t in Greenwood’s class but who of the options is?

But, surely it's fair to say that IF a player is outstanding in all aspects EXCEPT pace, he can be an effective international - Greenwood. However, if a player is NOT exceptional, a lack of pace will be an impediment - Dingwall.

It is fair and Greenwood was clearly test class (world class for me) but couldn’t kick (not literally, I know he can kick) and was an average defender.
I don’t think Dingers is quite test level, and certainly not Greenwood level, but (again) given his oppo for the jersey it would seem silly to write him off now based on the fact he’s not quick, which was your original point along with him ‘not having impressed at international level’.
One thing that does standout, for me, was that he was exceptional in Saints’ end of season knockout matches. Test match animal, innit.

Fair, though actually Greenwood could be quite a handy kicker, iirc he started at 15 originally. Dingers looks great in a settle backline, as he does a lot of 'jobs' that a centre needs to do very well; good hands, straightens, can hit a decent line to get beyond the tackler (ie pause for thought in the defence), nice grubber kick, reads attacks well. Sometimes he compromises himself positionally in defence (over rushes up), but that's our style tbh, and its true that he's a yard short of gas. But imo a better 12 than Lawrence. He and Lawrence would be worth looking at imo.

[Banquo]

One thing that does standout, for me, was that he was exceptional in Saints’ end of season knockout matches. Test match animal, innit.

So, SB could/should pick the whole Saints back line? As an integral part of that, maybe Dingwall could step up. Dropping Marcus, Lawrence, Slade and IFW though?

Not averse to dropping the middle 2, and IFW stays if Freeman is at 13 anyway. Mitchell, Smiths/Ford, Sleightholme, Dingers, Freeman, IFW, Furbank isn't awful.

[Oakboy]

One thing that does standout, for me, was that he was exceptional in Saints’ end of season knockout matches. Test match animal, innit.

So, SB could/should pick the whole Saints back line? As an integral part of that, maybe Dingwall could step up. Dropping Marcus, Lawrence, Slade and IFW though?

Not averse to dropping the middle 2, and IFW stays if Freeman is at 13 anyway. Mitchell, Smiths/Ford, Sleightholme, Dingers, Freeman, IFW, Furbank isn't awful.

I'd agree with trying that (apart from Ford). If you go that way, I'd start Fin with Marcus on the bench - so it would be Saints + IFW.

[Banquo]

So, SB could/should pick the whole Saints back line? As an integral part of that, maybe Dingwall could step up. Dropping Marcus, Lawrence, Slade and IFW though?

Not averse to dropping the middle 2, and IFW stays if Freeman is at 13 anyway. Mitchell, Smiths/Ford, Sleightholme, Dingers, Freeman, IFW, Furbank isn't awful.

I'd agree with trying that (apart from Ford). If you go that way, I'd start Fin with Marcus on the bench - so it would be Saints + IFW.

To be clear, not blind to what Dingers can't do, just that what he can do hasn't been seen in the 12 shirt for ages. Also don't think Freeman is a natural born 13 tbh, and I like what he offers on the wing. But hey.

[Mellsblue]

One thing that does standout, for me, was that he was exceptional in Saints’ end of season knockout matches. Test match animal, innit.

So, SB could/should pick the whole Saints back line? As an integral part of that, maybe Dingwall could step up. Dropping Marcus, Lawrence, Slade and IFW though?

Not sure how you got from me thinking he showed up in the big club matches to me advocating picking the entire Saints backline.

[Mellsblue]

But, surely it's fair to say that IF a player is outstanding in all aspects EXCEPT pace, he can be an effective international - Greenwood. However, if a player is NOT exceptional, a lack of pace will be an impediment - Dingwall.

It is fair and Greenwood was clearly test class (world class for me) but couldn’t kick (not literally, I know he can kick) and was an average defender.
I don’t think Dingers is quite test level, and certainly not Greenwood level, but (again) given his oppo for the jersey it would seem silly to write him off now based on the fact he’s not quick, which was your original point along with him ‘not having impressed at international level’.
One thing that does standout, for me, was that he was exceptional in Saints’ end of season knockout matches. Test match animal, innit.

Fair, though actually Greenwood could be quite a handy kicker, iirc he started at 15 originally. Dingers looks great in a settle backline, as he does a lot of 'jobs' that a centre needs to do very well; good hands, straightens, can hit a decent line to get beyond the tackler (ie pause for thought in the defence), nice grubber kick, reads attacks well. Sometimes he compromises himself positionally in defence (over rushes up), but that's our style tbh, and its true that he's a yard short of gas. But imo a better 12 than Lawrence. He and Lawrence would be worth looking at imo.

Agreed but I don’t think Lawrence has the top two inches for test rugby. I’d be delighted to be wrong.

[Oakboy]

One thing that does standout, for me, was that he was exceptional in Saints’ end of season knockout matches. Test match animal, innit.

So, SB could/should pick the whole Saints back line? As an integral part of that, maybe Dingwall could step up. Dropping Marcus, Lawrence, Slade and IFW though?

Not sure how you got from me thinking he showed up in the big club matches to me advocating picking the entire Saints backline.

Magic!!

I remember watching Dingwall in an international age group match yonks back and rating him highly. Now, I think (sadly) that top club stuff could be his limit. Given the dearth of rivals for the 12 shirt, though, maybe he should be given an extended chance (a bit like Dombrandt?).

I'd guess that SB will stick with Lawrence, but who knows?

[FKAS]

Dingwall seems to be a very intelligent rugby player and he's got a fair amount of skill but he seemed to be lacking physicality when he got a go in the 6N. It has previously been an issue for him at club level but he managed to develop that area of his game. Hopefully he kicks on again, he could yet form a good pairing with Lawrence.

He wasn't helped by being paired with Slade in the 6N, as a pairing they are too similar.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I think a centre pairing without at least one serious line-breaking threat is going to struggle regardless of other qualities.

[p/d]

If a fit Dingwall starts for the “A’ ahead of a fit Atkinson then we might as well give up looking for a better option than Lawrence.

[Banquo]

If a fit Dingwall starts for the “A’ ahead of a fit Atkinson then we might as well give up looking for a better option than Lawrence.

Both imo are better 12 options than Syd.

[p/d]

If a fit Dingwall starts for the “A’ ahead of a fit Atkinson then we might as well give up looking for a better option than Lawrence.

Both imo are better 12 options than Syd.

Agree.
Just see it completely pointless picking Dingwall to start for the A’s

[Banquo]

If a fit Dingwall starts for the “A’ ahead of a fit Atkinson then we might as well give up looking for a better option than Lawrence.

Both imo are better 12 options than Syd.

Agree.
Just see it completely pointless picking Dingwall to start for the A’s

Don’t agree tbh, he would help others shine, that’s his usp.

[pjm1]

Both imo are better 12 options than Syd.

Agree.
Just see it completely pointless picking Dingwall to start for the A’s

Don’t agree tbh, he would help others shine, that’s his usp.

Spot on as a general point. It’s not about the best individual players, it’s about the best units to play in a particular way and complement one another.

I don’t have a view on Dingwall tbh, but Ben Youngs and George Ford make some good points on their podcast about us armchair selectors!

[Puja]

Another fixture announced: playing against Ireland A in February. Great bit of news!

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/england- ... ireland-a/

Puja