WTF Southport?

[Which Tyler]

On "it's not about race" news.

Cars are being stoped in Teeside on Sunday, to make sure the driver is white.

[Mikey Brown]

Not my observation, can’t remember where I heard it now, but one of the really galling things is those fucking water canons would be brilliant right now.

[Sandydragon]

Alternatively, he could have phoned the home secretary, or the MP for Southend and Leigh, and got an answer in 5 minutes, whilst being cautioned that making the o formarion pu lic woukd jeapardise the court case, and be in contemot of parliament.

Of course, given his history, he wouldn't have been trusted with the information in the first case, but could certainly have been reassured that his bukkshit was bullshit.

He chose not to even try, because he's twat.

You’ll be surprised at how little information non government MPs get. A query to the Home Secretary would have needed a PQ. She won’t just take the call of a random MP.

But he is absolutely a twat.

[Which Tyler]

No, but her PA will.
And if the request for information is reasonable, then I have no doubt whatsoever that it'll provided, or pointed in the right direction. Could all have been sorted in 10-15 minutes if he'd actually had any desire whatsoever.

Oh, and Jebus - my typing on the phone has gotten bad recently - do I need glasses?

NB: I'm not saying he'd have been given the name and details of the suspect; but a reach-out of "I'm hearing concern voiced by my constituents that the suspected perpetrator of the terrible events in Southport was an illegal immigrant of the Muslim faith. I'm sure we're all aware that if that rumour gets to circulate widely then things run a risk of blowing out of control. I would like to be able to reassure my constituents that this is not the case, but also do not wish that doing so would later be proven untrue. Can the Home Secretary (or David Burton-Sampson if you prefer) reassure me that this is not the case, so that I can provide appropriate reassurance to those asking me? Yours Sincerely, Nigel Farage, MP for Clacton"

And you're seriously suggesting that this would be ignored if it wasn't a question asked publicly in parliament, and given 2 days notice?
Because if you are, I simply don't believe you.
He wouldn't necessarily get the suspect's name and details, but are you really saying that neither Cooper's PA, nor Burton-Sampson would just ignore that, rather than saying something along the lines of "I'm afraid I cannot divulge the details of an ongoing investigation, as it would risk jeopardising said investigation. However, I can assure you that the arrested suspect is a British born British citizen, I'm afraid I do not have his religious beliefs to hand at the moment"

These guys are grown-arse adults, colleagues in parliament, with offices within a couple of hundred metres of each other. They are not divorcing parents who've been told they can only communicate with each other through their solicitors.

[Son of Mathonwy]

If Farage had any honesty he would have known (or swiftly been told had he bothered to ask) that UK law prevents the routine release of a 17 year old's details. If he has a problem with the law he should complain about it, not insinuate conspiracies. And then to suggest that he was hoodwinked by Tate et al, also .

[Son of Mathonwy]

This:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ce-baiting

[Sandydragon]

No, but her PA will.
And if the request for information is reasonable, then I have no doubt whatsoever that it'll provided, or pointed in the right direction. Could all have been sorted in 10-15 minutes if he'd actually had any desire whatsoever.

Oh, and Jebus - my typing on the phone has gotten bad recently - do I need glasses?

NB: I'm not saying he'd have been given the name and details of the suspect; but a reach-out of "I'm hearing concern voiced by my constituents that the suspected perpetrator of the terrible events in Southport was an illegal immigrant of the Muslim faith. I'm sure we're all aware that if that rumour gets to circulate widely then things run a risk of blowing out of control. I would like to be able to reassure my constituents that this is not the case, but also do not wish that doing so would later be proven untrue. Can the Home Secretary (or David Burton-Sampson if you prefer) reassure me that this is not the case, so that I can provide appropriate reassurance to those asking me? Yours Sincerely, Nigel Farage, MP for Clacton"

And you're seriously suggesting that this would be ignored if it wasn't a question asked publicly in parliament, and given 2 days notice?
Because if you are, I simply don't believe you.
He wouldn't necessarily get the suspect's name and details, but are you really saying that neither Cooper's PA, nor Burton-Sampson would just ignore that, rather than saying something along the lines of "I'm afraid I cannot divulge the details of an ongoing investigation, as it would risk jeopardising said investigation. However, I can assure you that the arrested suspect is a British born British citizen, I'm afraid I do not have his religious beliefs to hand at the moment"

These guys are grown-arse adults, colleagues in parliament, with offices within a couple of hundred metres of each other. They are not divorcing parents who've been told they can only communicate with each other through their solicitors.

Th e process really is via PQs. I used to do dozens as a former civil servant. There would also be information shots for MPs on stuff like this but the Homes Secs private secretary isn’t about to have a discussion with an opposition MP via an unscheduled phone call.

The key here isn’t that Nigel Farage could have found out all the information he wanted to via official channels. The issue is that he is a giant twat and shared online speculation because he saw an opportunity to fly his own flag.

The name of the suspect wasn’t released at that point widely for good reasons. Nigel wouldn’t have got it from anyone at the HO. Are there bits of operational information that the police aren’t sharing? Of course there are and responsible MPs know that they won’t get all the information they would like, but act responsibly none the less. Farage isn’t fit to be an MP is the bottom line.

And yes, you probably do need glasses

[Sandydragon]

If Farage had any honesty he would have known (or swiftly been told had he bothered to ask) that UK law prevents the routine release of a 17 year old's details. If he has a problem with the law he should complain about it, not insinuate conspiracies. And then to suggest that he was hoodwinked by Tate et al, also .

Exactly. And no one would have given him the details or more information on their family until it was decided to make that information public. He has basically helped publicise false information about a very serious incident and promote unrest. His current head down strategy suggests that he knows that he has gone too far.

[Which Tyler]

Talking at cross purposes
Disengaging for the sake of my sanity

[Sandydragon]

Talking at cross purposes
Disengaging for the sake of my sanity

We both agree Farage is a twat.

But you are confusing a question in parliament to a minister to a parliamentary question. The latter is a written question which is answered on behalf of the minister by civil servants. Given Parliament isn’t sitting at the moment, there is no recourse to directly question the Home Secretary in parliament .

Even then, the information provided would be akin to that released in public, given everything said in parliament is public record. The Home Sec wouldn’t suddenly release the name or sensitive details of an investigation.

[Sandydragon]

Meanwhile, Jenrick who was once viewed as a moderate and sensible person is calling for it to be made illegal to chant Allah uh Akbar. As far as I know, every Muslim prayer event would be unlawful if this practice were followed.

Tories with more than single digit IQ and any common sense are condemning his idiotic comments.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Counter protests are now springing up. Unfortunately they will attract elements who just want a fight so this will
Make the police’s job harder, even if I think many people would agree with the sentiment.

It seemed to work in Cardiff, where the counter protest vastly outnumbered the far-righters who showed up. Probably because English nationalism doesn't go down too well in Wales.

But where the numbers are near enough it's the perfect result for Farage, the Telegraph, Elon Musk and the rest of the fascist-leaning crowd. Tough for some communities to trust the police, spread thin, to protect their local mosque, though.

On a related note, all this must be doing wonders for the economy (apart from private security), people scared to go out, shops boarding up. Again, great news for Farage and the rest.

[Son of Mathonwy]

These riots have the right wing press in a bit of a quandary. They like law and order and the police and all that but they basically agree with the rioters' complaints.

Thankfully the Sun is on the right side today with their 'Day of Shame' headline and the 'yobs' and 'thugs'. The Mail is also okay, criticising Robinson for his fake stories stoking the riots. The Telegraph is pretty despicable: from their 'Far-Right Clash with Muslims in Rioting' front page you'd be hard pressed to know which group is more responsible.

https://www.frontpages.com/uk-newspapers/

Again the Sun is okay today, slagging off 'Anti Social Media' for allowing liars to incite violence. The Mail talks of the shame of the child rioters. The Times' and Telegraph's headlines are pretty neutral. The Express continues to be the mouthpiece of Reform UK with it's 'Farage warns: Britain is at quite perilous point'. Thanks to the Express you don't even need an internet connection to get your daily dose of Farage's poison.

[Sandydragon]

Counter protests are now springing up. Unfortunately they will attract elements who just want a fight so this will
Make the police’s job harder, even if I think many people would agree with the sentiment.

It seemed to work in Cardiff, where the counter protest vastly outnumbered the far-righters who showed up. Probably because English nationalism doesn't go down too well in Wales.

But where the numbers are near enough it's the perfect result for Farage, the Telegraph, Elon Musk and the rest of the fascist-leaning crowd. Tough for some communities to trust the police, spread thin, to protect their local mosque, though.

On a related note, all this must be doing wonders for the economy (apart from private security), people scared to go out, shops boarding up. Again, great news for Farage and the rest.

There was an issue between both sides in Stoke last weekend. Apparently both sides turned up ready for trouble. Loads of shops closing early and customers/staff trapped inside for a few hours.

It’s totally brain dead and the longer it goes on the more it appears that the government is struggling to control the situation, which ain’t great. Maybe some fairly hefty prison sentences will deter some, but I hope the government considers managing social media. The stirring on X is absurd and there is no grown up who is prepared to act on disinformation. In fact he’s the chief propagandist! Would it be the end of life in the UK if we could find a way to limit it for a while?

[Sandydragon]

These riots have the right wing press in a bit of a quandary. They like law and order and the police and all that but they basically agree with the rioters' complaints.

Thankfully the Sun is on the right side today with their 'Day of Shame' headline and the 'yobs' and 'thugs'. The Mail is also okay, criticising Robinson for his fake stories stoking the riots. The Telegraph is pretty despicable: from their 'Far-Right Clash with Muslims in Rioting' front page you'd be hard pressed to know which group is more responsible.

https://www.frontpages.com/uk-newspapers/

Again the Sun is okay today, slagging off 'Anti Social Media' for allowing liars to incite violence. The Mail talks of the shame of the child rioters. The Times' and Telegraph's headlines are pretty neutral. The Express continues to be the mouthpiece of Reform UK with it's 'Farage warns: Britain is at quite perilous point'. Thanks to the Express you don't even need an internet connection to get your daily dose of Farage's poison.

I think some of the right wing MSM are realising that being seen to condone rioting isn’t a good look. Not that they are needed with the power of social media
Companies at the moment.

[Son of Mathonwy]

These riots have the right wing press in a bit of a quandary. They like law and order and the police and all that but they basically agree with the rioters' complaints.

Thankfully the Sun is on the right side today with their 'Day of Shame' headline and the 'yobs' and 'thugs'. The Mail is also okay, criticising Robinson for his fake stories stoking the riots. The Telegraph is pretty despicable: from their 'Far-Right Clash with Muslims in Rioting' front page you'd be hard pressed to know which group is more responsible.

https://www.frontpages.com/uk-newspapers/

Again the Sun is okay today, slagging off 'Anti Social Media' for allowing liars to incite violence. The Mail talks of the shame of the child rioters. The Times' and Telegraph's headlines are pretty neutral. The Express continues to be the mouthpiece of Reform UK with it's 'Farage warns: Britain is at quite perilous point'. Thanks to the Express you don't even need an internet connection to get your daily dose of Farage's poison.

I think some of the right wing MSM are realising that being seen to condone rioting isn’t a good look. Not that they are needed with the power of social media
Companies at the moment.

Obviously the Sun's headline could simply be seen as Murdoch taking a swing at Zuckerberg and Musk. Just billionaires having a spat. The wonders of the free press!

[Son of Mathonwy]

Counter protests are now springing up. Unfortunately they will attract elements who just want a fight so this will
Make the police’s job harder, even if I think many people would agree with the sentiment.

It seemed to work in Cardiff, where the counter protest vastly outnumbered the far-righters who showed up. Probably because English nationalism doesn't go down too well in Wales.

But where the numbers are near enough it's the perfect result for Farage, the Telegraph, Elon Musk and the rest of the fascist-leaning crowd. Tough for some communities to trust the police, spread thin, to protect their local mosque, though.

On a related note, all this must be doing wonders for the economy (apart from private security), people scared to go out, shops boarding up. Again, great news for Farage and the rest.

There was an issue between both sides in Stoke last weekend. Apparently both sides turned up ready for trouble. Loads of shops closing early and customers/staff trapped inside for a few hours.

It’s totally brain dead and the longer it goes on the more it appears that the government is struggling to control the situation, which ain’t great. Maybe some fairly hefty prison sentences will deter some, but I hope the government considers managing social media. The stirring on X is absurd and there is no grown up who is prepared to act on disinformation. In fact he’s the chief propagandist! Would it be the end of life in the UK if we could find a way to limit it for a while?

Labour ought to look at it. X doesn't have a 'right' to access every device in the world. I know its all a bit People's Republic but, yeah, why not publicly consider disconnecting X from the UK for a day or two?

[Which Tyler]

Drone footage from the fascit rally in Brighton overnight

[Sandydragon]

The real story of the news website accused of fuelling riots https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y38gjp4ygo

An interesting article on the BBC website which sheds some light on how the illegal immigrant rumours started.

[Sandydragon]

It seemed to work in Cardiff, where the counter protest vastly outnumbered the far-righters who showed up. Probably because English nationalism doesn't go down too well in Wales.

But where the numbers are near enough it's the perfect result for Farage, the Telegraph, Elon Musk and the rest of the fascist-leaning crowd. Tough for some communities to trust the police, spread thin, to protect their local mosque, though.

On a related note, all this must be doing wonders for the economy (apart from private security), people scared to go out, shops boarding up. Again, great news for Farage and the rest.

There was an issue between both sides in Stoke last weekend. Apparently both sides turned up ready for trouble. Loads of shops closing early and customers/staff trapped inside for a few hours.

It’s totally brain dead and the longer it goes on the more it appears that the government is struggling to control the situation, which ain’t great. Maybe some fairly hefty prison sentences will deter some, but I hope the government considers managing social media. The stirring on X is absurd and there is no grown up who is prepared to act on disinformation. In fact he’s the chief propagandist! Would it be the end of life in the UK if we could find a way to limit it for a while?

Labour ought to look at it. X doesn't have a 'right' to access every device in the world. I know its all a bit People's Republic but, yeah, why not publicly consider disconnecting X from the UK for a day or two?

If it’s promoting violence then it should be considered. Musk would be apoplectic but that’s a risk worth taking to make him realise he has responsibilities now.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The real story of the news website accused of fuelling riots https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y38gjp4ygo

An interesting article on the BBC website which sheds some light on how the illegal immigrant rumours started.

Yeah, it sheds a small amount of light but unfortunately doesn't get to the bottom of it (which is not surprising due to its complexity and opacity). It's not clear whether any of the people or entities involved were innocently or deliberately spreading incendiary untruths. I find it hard to believe that it started with a 'mistake' however.

[Son of Mathonwy]

There was an issue between both sides in Stoke last weekend. Apparently both sides turned up ready for trouble. Loads of shops closing early and customers/staff trapped inside for a few hours.

It’s totally brain dead and the longer it goes on the more it appears that the government is struggling to control the situation, which ain’t great. Maybe some fairly hefty prison sentences will deter some, but I hope the government considers managing social media. The stirring on X is absurd and there is no grown up who is prepared to act on disinformation. In fact he’s the chief propagandist! Would it be the end of life in the UK if we could find a way to limit it for a while?

Labour ought to look at it. X doesn't have a 'right' to access every device in the world. I know its all a bit People's Republic but, yeah, why not publicly consider disconnecting X from the UK for a day or two?

If it’s promoting violence then it should be considered. Musk would be apoplectic but that’s a risk worth taking to make him realise he has responsibilities now.

Things have changed with Musk's involvement in the last few days. It's clear now that X is not a neutral platform but is actually hostile to the interests of the UK. Should the government/state entities be using it any more? Should we seek or build a better one? The UK should not become more reliant on such a hostile system (imagine being reliant on a Russian one). I would hate us to get to the position that the UK has more to lose by cutting off X than X does.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Drone footage from the fascit rally in Brighton overnight

Reminds me of the pro-Israel demonstrators we encounter on the Gaza marches.

It looks like counter protests can work if the numbers are big enough, and of course, they are peaceful. Are things beginning to calm down? I think we need to see that we're in a struggle which might take some effort to win, because the racists aren't going to disappear overnight, nor will the neo-fascists others forwarding Putin's objectives (knowingly or otherwise).

[Sandydragon]

The real story of the news website accused of fuelling riots https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y38gjp4ygo

An interesting article on the BBC website which sheds some light on how the illegal immigrant rumours started.

Yeah, it sheds a small amount of light but unfortunately doesn't get to the bottom of it (which is not surprising due to its complexity and opacity). It's not clear whether any of the people or entities involved were innocently or deliberately spreading incendiary untruths. I find it hard to believe that it started with a 'mistake' however.

I don’t. My view it could have been deliberate or accidental. I can absolutely see how an understaffed media outlet trying to keep up could make a mistake which then went viral. People love to bash MSM but mostly they do check facts. It wouldn’t surprise me if the pressure to stay on top of the story n their social media account led to a rush job.

Also worth noting that there are many reports of other actors on social media who are absolutely deliberately fanning the flames.

It also demonstrates how foreign media can be totally ignorant of the problems on the ground in the UK and not be sensitive to how their reports land.

[Sandydragon]

Labour ought to look at it. X doesn't have a 'right' to access every device in the world. I know its all a bit People's Republic but, yeah, why not publicly consider disconnecting X from the UK for a day or two?

If it’s promoting violence then it should be considered. Musk would be apoplectic but that’s a risk worth taking to make him realise he has responsibilities now.

Things have changed with Musk's involvement in the last few days. It's clear now that X is not a neutral platform but is actually hostile to the interests of the UK. Should the government/state entities be using it any more? Should we seek or build a better one? The UK should not become more reliant on such a hostile system (imagine being reliant on a Russian one). I would hate us to get to the position that the UK has more to lose by cutting off X than X does.

Interesting discussion on The News Agents the other day about whether proper journalists should abandon X. If the platform was just starting up, would there be so many on it?

Lewis Goodall was suggesting mass evacuation, whilst Jon Sopel suggested that X needed people who were posting the truth.

I think the problem is that musk has changed the dynamic through his own interventions but the algorithm also seems to have changed. Now the disinformation posts seem to be promoted. I’m not sure there’s a straight forward answer except that if X is refusing to deal with posts which are inciting hatred/ violence then the government needs to do something.