England A vs All Blacks XV, 8 November at the Rec

[Which Tyler]

I think TdG is decent but C Atkinson has been an England A regular for a while now. Not sure why he's such in favour but he seems to be a favourite.

As a FH - you're talking about removing a good, in form FB in order to play someone out of position, who's not looking good even in his specialist position.

[Scrumhead]

Agreed. Harsh on Atkinson to go from senior tourist to not even making the A squad, but he’s not playing at 10 and not doing well enough at 15 to be serious option there either … Barton looked better at 15 for Gloucester last season.

Worsley has impressed me and it makes more sense to me to pick players who might be good enough to make the seniors in time rather than a player like Billy Searle who’d only be there as a stop gap in the A squad.

Ideally I’d have gone with Benson or Bailey but not playing 10 or not starting isn’t the right platform.

At 15, it should be de Glanville vs. Hendy.

[Slater582]

Two points worth raising …

1.The NZ game won’t ‘capture’ anyone as it’s not their official ‘second team’. If we want to guarantee keeping Tuipolotu and Blake, they’ll need to play vs. Spain. Not sure there’s anyone else of interest with dual qualification prospects? Not sure I’d want to see it, but Tyrone Green is playing well and eligible now.

The New Zealand XV is actually their official second team and has been for a few seasons, so it will be a capture game.

Puja

Just read a couple of articles that say it isn’t? Although as always, it’s the media so I wouldn’t totally trust it being accurate.

Assume Charlie Morgan is one of them?

Although the All Blacks XV is regarded as the second team of New Zealand, it has not been officially nominated to World Rugby in this way. Therefore, the match between them and England A in Bath is not a fixture that will tie players to either nation for three years. England A’s second game of the autumn in Valladolid will do.

[FKAS]

I think TdG is decent but C Atkinson has been an England A regular for a while now. Not sure why he's such in favour but he seems to be a favourite.

As a FH - you're talking about removing a good, in form FB in order to play someone out of position, who's not looking good even in his specialist position.

Bath's second choice fullback has started half the number of games at 15 this season than Charlie Atkinson who appears to be Glaws first choice there this season.

I'm unsure how fair it is to compare form at club level when Bath have a dominant pack and Glaws have an injury ravaged one. Bath have a cohesive backline whilst Glaws have an injury ravaged one that's changed every week and not by choice.

To Scrumhead's point, I thought Barton did look good last season. Henry's ability under the high ball is comically bad, he's a winger at international level at best.

[Which Tyler]

Sorry, I hadn't realised that this was the first season of rugby either had played. I will recalibrate my opinions.
Oh, and appearances can be deceptive - CAtkinson is not Glouester's first choice FB, he's just uninjured.


C. Atkinson, has played 12 matches at FB - less than 2/10 of his starts (way less if you're going to include where he played off the bench). 6 times this season, and once in the previous 4 years.
Td Glanville has played 88 times at FB - more than 9/10 of his starts (even more if you're going to include where he played off the bench). 2 times this season, and sixty-one in the previous 4 years.


One of those players is playing well, at FB
One of those players is playing poorly, at FB

So do you want to pick on form (CA is playing more at FB than TdG) or not (CA is playing poorly, but it's not his fault)?

[FKAS]

Sorry, I hadn't realised that this was the first season of rugby either had played. I will recalibrate my opinions.
Oh, and appearances can be deceptive - CAtkinson is not Glouester's first choice FB, he's just uninjured.


C. Atkinson, has played 12 matches at FB - less than 2/10 of his starts (way less if you're going to include where he played off the bench). 6 times this season, and once in the previous 4 years.
Td Glanville has played 88 times at FB - more than 9/10 of his starts (even more if you're going to include where he played off the bench). 2 times this season, and sixty-one in the previous 4 years.


One of those players is playing well, at FB
One of those players is playing poorly, at FB

So do you want to pick on form (CA is playing more at FB than TdG) or not (CA is playing poorly, but it's not his fault)?

I'm really not that fussed either way but think based on previous selections Charlie Atkinson will end up in there somewhere.

[Puja]

Just read a couple of articles that say it isn’t? Although as always, it’s the media so I wouldn’t totally trust it being accurate.

It has been announced and described as their second national team before and has captured players in the past, but fuck only knows whether that's true nowadays with the clusterfuck of eligibility. I'm still not recovered from that South Africa A vs England A tour not being official A-team matches because some other South Africa team that hadn't existed for 6 years was nominated as the second side.

Puja

The joys of rugby admin...

Google AI seems to think NZ A is their capture side but who knows. You'd hope that the RFU would straighten this out with the NZRU as I'm sure both unions would like to capture the players featuring but that is a lot of hoping.

I think with New Zealand they're actually happier with it not being a capture team - it means they can encourage PI players to tour, who might otherwise be wary because they might not want to wait another 3 years to turn out for Tonga, et al. They get to have a look at them without them committing, and NZ are sanguine that anyone good enough for them to be interested will wait for them and, should they go, that the PI's are unlikely to be any kind of threat to them. Whereas we've got the Welsh and Scots running Exiles programmes and scouring our league for players with a grandmother born in Hereford/Berwick, so it's sometimes a bit more immediate for us to not have players defect.

Assume Charlie Morgan is one of them?

Although the All Blacks XV is regarded as the second team of New Zealand, it has not been officially nominated to World Rugby in this way. Therefore, the match between them and England A in Bath is not a fixture that will tie players to either nation for three years. England A’s second game of the autumn in Valladolid will do.

Well, that settles it - I trust Morgan to have his finger on the pulse with this kind of thing. Utterly ridiculous and something that World Rugby need to stamp out - it's ridiculous that teams should be allowed to game international capture like this.

It should either be that a) every game that your nominated A team plays is a capture game, regardless of who the opposition is; b) only matches between A teams count, but any senior representative side under the main on is the A side unless specifically excluded by World Rugby, no matter whether you call them Emerging Springboks, England XV, New Zealand Barbarians, or whatever; or c) nothing underneath full senior caps count as capturing. I would be happy with any of those options, but the current inconsistent, incoherent mess is ridiculous.

Puja

[FKAS]

It should either be that a) every game that your nominated A team plays is a capture game, regardless of who the opposition is; b) only matches between A teams count, but any senior representative side under the main on is the A side unless specifically excluded by World Rugby, no matter whether you call them Emerging Springboks, England XV, New Zealand Barbarians, or whatever; or c) nothing underneath full senior caps count as capturing. I would be happy with any of those options, but the current inconsistent, incoherent mess is ridiculous.

Puja

That's far to logical for world rugby.

[Captainhaircut]

I’d drop Quirke, Ojomoh, Calouri, Dan, Arudell, CCS (if fit) and Kenningham down for this. Maybe even AOF to play loosehead. The likes of Bracken c 2, Kepu, Sodeke etc can step up to the full squad as emergency cover and then they can all swap around again the next week.

Going to be a bigger test of some of those players to be leaders in the A side against NZ than squad players in a test match against Fiji.

[Which Tyler]

I'd want Ojomoh and CCS available for he first XV.

Dingwall Freeman didn't work for me. Neither played particularly well (Tommy obviously gets cut some slack, it's not his fault he isn't a centre (yet))

[Captainhaircut]

Don’t see them changing it after one game we won comfortably though. Would like to see CCS play second row in the A game from the start. We’d learn much more than him coming off he bench with the game already won against Fiji.

[Which Tyler]

1st XV

9. Mitchell
10. FSmith
11. Feyi-Waboso
12. Ojomoh
13. Lawrence
14. Freeman / Roebuck
15. Steward / Freeman

22. Spencer
23. Roebuck / Arundell

Wouldn't change the starting pack, would would be interested in getting CCS (if fit) into the bench, but can't see myself dropping anyone from today to make that space

[FKAS]

England Men’s A squad for All Blacks XV fixture (includes current club, community club and senior caps)

Forwards
Ben Bamber (Sale Sharks, Langworthy Reds ARLFC, uncapped)
Joe Batley (Bristol Bears, Gosport and Fareham RFC, uncapped)
Jamie Blamire (Leicester Tigers, Workington RFC, 7 caps)
Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester Rugby, Saracens Amateur RFC, uncapped)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs, Devonport Services RFC, uncapped)
Tarek Haffar (Leicester Tigers, Grasshoppers RFC, uncapped)
Fitz Harding (Bristol Bears, uncapped)
Emmanuel Iyogun (Northampton Saints, Southend RFC, uncapped)
Nathan Jibulu (Sale Sharks, Old Wimbledonian Warriors RFC, uncapped)
Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby, Matson RFC, uncapped)
Nathan Michelow (Saracens, Brentwood Rugby, uncapped)
Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, Bromyard Rugby Club, 1 cap)
Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby, Wells RFC, uncapped)
Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs, East Coast Bays RFC, 4 caps)
Vilikesa Sela (Bath Rugby, Royal Wootton Bassett RFC, uncapped)
Olamide Sodeke (Saracens, Blackheath Rugby Club, uncapped)
Kepu Tuipulotu (Bath Rugby, Cwmbran RFC, uncapped)

Backs
Charlie Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby, Oxford RFC, 1 cap)
Jamie Benson (Harlequins, uncapped)
Noah Caluori (Saracens, Blackheath Rugby, uncapped)
Tobias Elliott (Saracens, Harrow Rugby Club, uncapped)
Caolan Englefield (Gloucester Rugby, Old Rutlishians Rugby, uncapped)
Angus Hall (Saracens, Sevenoaks Rugby Club, uncapped)
Ollie Hassell-Collins (Leicester Tigers, Newbury RFC, 2 caps)
Josh Hodge (Exeter Chiefs, Vale of Lune RUFC, uncapped)
Sean Kerr (Harlequins, Sutton and Epsom Rugby Club, uncapped)
Rekeiti Ma’asi-White (Sale Sharks, Ampthill RUFC, uncapped)
Archie McParland (Northampton Saints, Ruthin RFC, uncapped)
Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby, Chippenham RFC, 1 cap)
Adam Radwan (Leicester Tigers, Billingham RUFC, 2 caps)

[FKAS]

Pretty decent squad that, if have preferred Blake to Blamire but not much in that. Woodward is streets ahead of Kerr currently so don't get that one, unless Kerr needs to be "captured". Well to be honest I'd take Woodward over all the centre options in there bar Ojomoh at this stage but nevermind.

Hopefully Benson gets the start at 10 over Atkinson, be better for his development. Bamber, Batley, Richards and Harding all deserved inclusions.

[fivepointer]

England Men’s A squad for All Blacks XV fixture
Forwards
Ben Bamber (Sale Sharks)
Joe Batley (Bristol Bears)
Jamie Blamire (Leicester Tigers)
Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester Rugby)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)
Tarek Haffar (Leicester Tigers)
Fitz Harding (Bristol Bears)
Emmanuel Iyogun (Northampton Saints)
Nathan Jibulu (Sale Sharks)
Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
Nathan Michelow (Saracens)
Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints)
Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby)
Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs)
Vilikesa Sela (Bath Rugby)
Olamide Sodeke (Saracens)
Kepu Tuipulotu (Bath Rugby)

Backs
Charlie Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby)
Jamie Benson (Harlequins)
Noah Caluori (Saracens)
Tobias Elliott (Saracens)
Caolan Englefield (Gloucester Rugby)
Angus Hall (Saracens)
Ollie Hassell-Collins (Leicester Tigers)
Josh Hodge (Exeter Chiefs)
Sean Kerr (Harlequins)
Rekeiti Ma’asi-White (Sale Sharks)
Archie McParland (Northampton Saints)
Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby)
Adam Radwan (Leicester Tigers)

No Hendy, Porter, Beard, Joseph or Woodward in the backs? C Bracken might have been worth having a look at.
Batley is going to be the captain.

[Scrumhead]

Quite a few interesting/eyebrow raising calls there. I can only assume Will Joseph has a knock as he was heavily rumoured to be involved.

To add to the ones @fivpepointer mentioned already:

Elliott > Jack Bracken
Englefield > Charlie Bracken and/or Porter
Richards > Tizard
Michelow > quite a few …
Hall > Joseph and/or Beard
Hodge > Hendy

Odd …

[Oakboy]

Some of the omissions are a surprise but there's a useful 23 in that group.

[FKAS]

Re omissions I posted it on the EPS thread already but I'd take Joe Woodward over all those centre options bar Ojomoh every day of the week.

Would have preferred Blake to Blamire as well, more potential upside and stronger set piece.

[Scrumhead]

Yeah - agreed on both.

Not sure I can ever see Michelow ever making the senior squad. Several back row players I’d have been more interested to look at.

[Puja]

Iyogun
Haffar

Blamire
Jibulu
Tuipulotu

Fasogbon
Knight
Sela

Bamber
Batley
Richards
Sodeke

Fisilau
Harding
Michelow
Pearson
Roots


Englefield
McParland

CAtkinson
Benson

Kerr
Ma'asi-White
Ojomoh

Caluori
Elliott
Hall
Hassell-Collins
Radwan

Hodge

[Puja]

Quite a few interesting/eyebrow raising calls there. I can only assume Will Joseph has a knock as he was heavily rumoured to be involved.

To add to the ones @fivpepointer mentioned already:

Elliott > Jack Bracken
Englefield > Charlie Bracken and/or Porter
Richards > Tizard
Michelow > quite a few …
Hall > Joseph and/or Beard
Hodge > Hendy

Odd …

I actually like Hodge and Englefield as call-ups. Hodge has been in belting form at the start of the Premiership and I wouldn't've hated seeing him in the full EPS, while Englefield's got a nice pass and a siege-gun of a boot. However, I am with you in being baffled by no Hendy, Joseph, or either Bracken.

Feels like an exceedingly weak England A side that. Unless there's quite a few players dropping down from the full squad to get game time, they are going to get absolutely rinsed by the ABXV.

I would personally prefer selecting the EPS players outside of the England vs Fiji XXIII in this game. A team of Obano, Dan, AOF, Isiekwe, Lockett, Kenningham, Pearson, CCS, Quirke, MSmith, Murley, Ojomoh, Lawrence, Caluori, Arundell would be a much better side and we'd learn a lot more from them getting a real test, rather than holding tacklebags for four weeks while Nathan Michelow gets the peak of his career recognition.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Omitting Porter when it looks like Benson has been pencilled in to play FH seems very odd to me. I would have thought he was a much better option than the 2 SH's named in the squad and has a club connection. Think Carr-Smith has shown up well this season and looks a more rounded player than Englefield. Also at Bath, Tom dG and Miles Reid are a bit hard done by.

[FKAS]

Nathan Michelow is a particularly odd one given his Prem Rugby campaign this season consists of him playing roughly a minute of the first game of the season before being red carded for a stupid high shot.

What team we expecting?

Iyogen, Blamire, Fasogbon
Batley, Bamber
Richards, Fisilau, Harding
Englefield, Benson
Ojomoh, Ma'asi-White
OHC, Hodge, Radwan

Jibulu, Haffar, Sela, Sodeke, Pearson, MacParland, Atkinson, Hall/Elliott?

[Scrumhead]

I’d go with:

1. Iyogun
2. Jibulu
3. Fasogbon
4. Batley
5. Bamber
6. Roots (c)
7. Pearson
8. Fisilau
9. MacParland
10. Benson
11. Hassell-Collins
12. Ma'asi-White
13. Ojomoh
14. Radwan
15. Hodge

16. Tuipolotu 17. Haffar 18. Sela 19. Richards 20. Harding 21. Englefield 22. Atkinson 23. Caluori

[Epaminondas Pules]

I’d go with:

1. Iyogun
2. Jibulu
3. Fasogbon
4. Batley
5. Bamber
6. Roots (c)
7. Pearson
8. Fisilau
9. MacParland
10. Benson
11. Hassell-Collins
12. Ma'asi-White
13. Ojomoh
14. Radwan
15. Hodge

16. Tuipolotu 17. Haffar 18. Sela 19. Richards 20. Harding 21. Englefield 22. Atkinson 23. Caluori

I'd got the same apart from I'd have Hall over Caluori just for flexibility.