v AB'S - Second Test

[cashead]

I remember the TMO mentioned it, but Garces apparently decided he couldn't give any less of a shit. I don't care what colour jersey you're wearing, if you swing an arm at the back of someone's head, then you're a cunt and should be banned, and the referee sure as fucking shit should send you off for it.

Did they show it more than once on NZ tv? Not sure if you have the same pictures as us? From the one replay and one angle we saw it looked like SOB is completely unsighted with his head up someone backside and Naholo is about 2 feet off the floor...certainly a lot more mitigation than SBW. Would like to see it again.

Will be interesting to see if he's cited.

I don't think it was an issue. Its more because I think as fans our tempers were through the roof at how Garces had dealt wth the SBW and Vunipola ones differently that all of a sudden everything is an injustice.

Its pretty far down the list in terms of the obvious things Garces did wrong. The worst thing is if the ABs had won then we could lodge a complaint and his shocker would be analysed properly, now I don't think we will because you come off looking like sore losers but it was an atrociously lopsided performance.

If he chose to ignore the TMO pointing out that O'Brien striking Naholo on the back of the head with a swinging arm, then that actually would be pretty fucking egregious. "I must protect the player," indeed.

[dk4]

Will Vunipola be playing next week?

[jared_7]

Did they show it more than once on NZ tv? Not sure if you have the same pictures as us? From the one replay and one angle we saw it looked like SOB is completely unsighted with his head up someone backside and Naholo is about 2 feet off the floor...certainly a lot more mitigation than SBW. Would like to see it again.

Will be interesting to see if he's cited.

I don't think it was an issue. Its more because I think as fans our tempers were through the roof at how Garces had dealt wth the SBW and Vunipola ones differently that all of a sudden everything is an injustice.

Its pretty far down the list in terms of the obvious things Garces did wrong. The worst thing is if the ABs had won then we could lodge a complaint and his shocker would be analysed properly, now I don't think we will because you come off looking like sore losers but it was an atrociously lopsided performance.

Isn't it Poite next week? More of the same all round if so.

More of the same what? There's nothing wrong with his style of refereeing. He was obviously tough at the breakdown which is fine.

Not giving a warning or yellow cards for 11 penalties in their own half, 5 in the 15 minutes after HT, is not really a refereeing style. Giving a red for a shoulder charge to the head and a yellow for another shoulder charge to the head isn't really a style, either.

They're inconsistencies that I'm sure if he refereed again next week would be very different.

So Im not too worried unless you mean more of one rule for one side, another for the other.

[jared_7]

Did they show it more than once on NZ tv? Not sure if you have the same pictures as us? From the one replay and one angle we saw it looked like SOB is completely unsighted with his head up someone backside and Naholo is about 2 feet off the floor...certainly a lot more mitigation than SBW. Would like to see it again.

Will be interesting to see if he's cited.

I don't think it was an issue. Its more because I think as fans our tempers were through the roof at how Garces had dealt wth the SBW and Vunipola ones differently that all of a sudden everything is an injustice.

Its pretty far down the list in terms of the obvious things Garces did wrong. The worst thing is if the ABs had won then we could lodge a complaint and his shocker would be analysed properly, now I don't think we will because you come off looking like sore losers but it was an atrociously lopsided performance.

If he chose to ignore the TMO pointing out that O'Brien striking Naholo on the back of the head with a swinging arm, then that actually would be pretty fucking egregious. "I must protect the player," indeed.

I didn't realise the TMO had asked to look at it.

I just thought the TV showed a replay and then we all moved on.

[cashead]

I don't think it was an issue. Its more because I think as fans our tempers were through the roof at how Garces had dealt wth the SBW and Vunipola ones differently that all of a sudden everything is an injustice.

Its pretty far down the list in terms of the obvious things Garces did wrong. The worst thing is if the ABs had won then we could lodge a complaint and his shocker would be analysed properly, now I don't think we will because you come off looking like sore losers but it was an atrociously lopsided performance.

If he chose to ignore the TMO pointing out that O'Brien striking Naholo on the back of the head with a swinging arm, then that actually would be pretty fucking egregious. "I must protect the player," indeed.

I didn't realise the TMO had asked to look at it.

I just thought the TV showed a replay and then we all moved on.

I remember the TMO mentioned it, around the time of the replay but Garces ignored it.

[Digby]

Not giving a warning or yellow cards for 11 penalties in their own half, 5 in the 15 minutes after HT, is not really a refereeing style.

.

You're basically complaining about a period in the match when the Lion's stupidity allied to the ref pinging them was keeping NZ in the game when down a man

[cashead]

And either way, there is already precedent of the referee looking at footage on the big screen (which the crowd was reacting to) and making a call retroactively during the game (2014 Ellis Park test between the ABs and Boks comes to mind), so I don't think Garces has any excuse.

[cashead]

Not giving a warning or yellow cards for 11 penalties in their own half, 5 in the 15 minutes after HT, is not really a refereeing style.

.

You're basically complaining about a period in the match when the Lion's stupidity allied to the ref pinging them was keeping NZ in the game when down a man

If a team is repeatedly infringing at the same end of the field in the same way over and over and it's the same guy half the time, then that should be grounds for a yellow card.

[Mr Mwenda]

How long do you cats need?

[jared_7]

Not giving a warning or yellow cards for 11 penalties in their own half, 5 in the 15 minutes after HT, is not really a refereeing style.

.

You're basically complaining about a period in the match when the Lion's stupidity allied to the ref pinging them was keeping NZ in the game when down a man

I'm complaining they weren't warned about repeat infringing or given a yellow card. Remember this was on top of 5 or 6 in the first half.

I've said clearly Barrett being able to kick and Read being a better captain would have dealt with the issue, but at the end of the day what the game probably came down to was 14 men against 15 for a long period, it totally showed in that last 15 minutes. But Vunipola should have gone and proper refereeing for repeated infringing would have rightly negated that.

Well that and SBW not being a tool in the first place.

Anyway, as Read said - I look forward to next week when the ABs just decide to jump into every tackle to get penalties. You can't make this stuff up.

[Digby]

Not giving a warning or yellow cards for 11 penalties in their own half, 5 in the 15 minutes after HT, is not really a refereeing style.

.

You're basically complaining about a period in the match when the Lion's stupidity allied to the ref pinging them was keeping NZ in the game when down a man

If a team is repeatedly infringing at the same end of the field in the same way over and over and it's the same guy half the time, then that should be grounds for a yellow card.

They did get a yellow for repeat infringements

[jared_7]

You're basically complaining about a period in the match when the Lion's stupidity allied to the ref pinging them was keeping NZ in the game when down a man

If a team is repeatedly infringing at the same end of the field in the same way over and over and it's the same guy half the time, then that should be grounds for a yellow card.

They did get a yellow for repeat infringements

Oh do tell.

[cashead]

You're basically complaining about a period in the match when the Lion's stupidity allied to the ref pinging them was keeping NZ in the game when down a man

If a team is repeatedly infringing at the same end of the field in the same way over and over and it's the same guy half the time, then that should be grounds for a yellow card.

They did get a yellow for repeat infringements

No, Vunipola got a yellow for striking Barrett's head - which, if going by the precedent set by Garces himself earlier in the game, should've been a red.

[Digby]

Not giving a warning or yellow cards for 11 penalties in their own half, 5 in the 15 minutes after HT, is not really a refereeing style.

.

You're basically complaining about a period in the match when the Lion's stupidity allied to the ref pinging them was keeping NZ in the game when down a man

I'm complaining they weren't warned about repeat infringing or given a yellow card. Remember this was on top of 5 or 6 in the first half.

I've said clearly Barrett being able to kick and Read being a better captain would have dealt with the issue, but at the end of the day what the game probably came down to was 14 men against 15 for a long period, it totally showed in that last 15 minutes. But Vunipola should have gone and proper refereeing for repeated infringing would have rightly negated that.

Well that and SBW not being a tool in the first place.

Anyway, as Read said - I look forward to next week when the ABs just decide to jump into every tackle to get penalties. You can't make this stuff up.

As above they were given a card for repeat infringements. And a lot of the infringements weren't killing NZ attacks, so it's not always x pens should equate to a warning, and y to a yellow

Not seen the Mako or SOB incidents as was popping in and out of the room getting bacon sandwiches and tea/coffee

[Digby]

If a team is repeatedly infringing at the same end of the field in the same way over and over and it's the same guy half the time, then that should be grounds for a yellow card.

They did get a yellow for repeat infringements

No, Vunipola got a yellow for striking Barrett's head - which, if going by the precedent set by Garces himself earlier in the game, should've been a red.

Maybe my English isn't good enough, but the ref did say it was for repeat pens being coughed up

[jared_7]

If you are suggesting Vunipola got a yellow for repeated infringements and not for a deliberate shoulder to a players head, which received a red card in the first half, then that would make Garces' decision making even more out of kilter.

Unless the shit I went for in the second half lasted 10 minutes and I missed another Lions yellow card. I doubt it though, spicy thai food tends to come out pretty quickly

[cashead]

There were two cards in the game - Vunipola's and SBW's. Neither were for repeat infringements, so what game were you watching? Or maybe your English really isn't good enough.

[jared_7]

Anyway lads, good debate. I'm out for now, have a 10k to do.

[Timbo]

I heard Garces definitely mention other pens when he sinbinned Mako.

Haven't seen SOB's again yet, but from the one angle there would definitely look to be some mitigation...unsighted, unintentional and Naholo is 2 foot off the ground. Contact with the head isn't a stonewall red, see TJ Peranara in the provincial warm up.

[skidger]

I heard Garces definitely mention other pens when he sinbinned Mako.

Haven't seen SOB's again yet, but from the one angle there would definitely look to be some mitigation...unsighted, unintentional and Naholo is 2 foot off the ground. Contact with the head isn't a stonewall red, see TJ Peranara in the provincial warm up.

He did. Same player mentioned and i think repeat infringements. Mako lost the plot for a while there till he was put out of his misery.

[p/d]

Sexton and Farrell have mainly looked as potent as a eunuch, even good ball is kicked

Can't agree with that at all. Caused the AB's lots of issues, and they were doing so even before SBW went off. Shape in attack best it's been on tour by far. Just next week need a bit more decent ball.

Agreed, I was surprised at how cohesive they looked in attack, so will wind my neck in.

With diggers on this. Thought they offered little with ball in hand or with their much vaunted kicking game. Looked like they could have looped around each other all night and not caused too much upset.

The 'lots of issues' were caused by the pack, more importantly the back row.

[Sandydragon]

I heard Garces definitely mention other pens when he sinbinned Mako.

Haven't seen SOB's again yet, but from the one angle there would definitely look to be some mitigation...unsighted, unintentional and Naholo is 2 foot off the ground. Contact with the head isn't a stonewall red, see TJ Peranara in the provincial warm up.

I heard that too. Maybe it was additional justification, but he definitely made that comment.

As for repeated penalties, I seem to recall a lot of penalties for the lions in the warm up matches which didn't necessarily translate into a card. I don't think the penalties we gave away were that clear cut.

I was hoping Vunipola would be replaced just before the card, it was clear that he had lost all composure.

[MerryCherry]

Grrr: At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this.

Yep that's really annoying

[paddy no 11]

Mako and SBW incidents are incomparable, stop being a dick.

SOB however should be cited, garces had issues with ear piece all night not sure he heard the TMO on that one

[Timbo]

Can't agree with that at all. Caused the AB's lots of issues, and they were doing so even before SBW went off. Shape in attack best it's been on tour by far. Just next week need a bit more decent ball.

Agreed, I was surprised at how cohesive they looked in attack, so will wind my neck in.

With diggers on this. Thought they offered little with ball in hand or with their much vaunted kicking game. Looked like they could have looped around each other all night and not caused too much upset.

The 'lots of issues' were caused by the pack, more importantly the back row.

SOB was immense. Physicality up several notches on last week. Warburton did exactly what he came into the team to do; be a huge nuisance at the breakdown.