v AB'S - Second Test

[Mr Mwenda]

SOB however should be cited, garces had issues with ear piece all night not sure he heard the TMO on that one

Come on, don't be like that. I'm expecting the next escalation to be the unearthing of evidence that Garces has had a plot to murder an All Black via Sean O'Brien in the works for years.

[Digby]

If you are suggesting Vunipola got a yellow for repeated infringements and not for a deliberate shoulder to a players head, which received a red card in the first half, then that would make Garces' decision making even more out of kilter.

Unless the shit I went for in the second half lasted 10 minutes and I missed another Lions yellow card. I doubt it though, spicy thai food tends to come out pretty quickly

Not so much suggesting as saying that's what happened. At least as per the ref.

Still not seen Mako's incident itself so whether it warranted a card of either colour simply of itself I don't know

[MerryCherry]

Gatland should've replaced Mako after the first incident, every man and his dog could see that card coming, apart from the coaching team apparently.

[Mr Mwenda]

Gatland should've replaced Mako after the first incident, every man and his dog could see that card coming, apart from the coaching team apparently.

This. Poor show there by the management. He was really after Barrett and was lucky not to see red in my view.

[p/d]

Agreed, I was surprised at how cohesive they looked in attack, so will wind my neck in.

With diggers on this. Thought they offered little with ball in hand or with their much vaunted kicking game. Looked like they could have looped around each other all night and not caused too much upset.

The 'lots of issues' were caused by the pack, more importantly the back row.

SOB was immense. Physicality up several notches on last week. Warburton did exactly what he came into the team to do; be a huge nuisance at the breakdown.

If they can keep that up and Toby hits his straps as a ball carrier then we could start hurting them through the middle.

[skidger]

With diggers on this. Thought they offered little with ball in hand or with their much vaunted kicking game. Looked like they could have looped around each other all night and not caused too much upset.

The 'lots of issues' were caused by the pack, more importantly the back row.

SOB was immense. Physicality up several notches on last week. Warburton did exactly what he came into the team to do; be a huge nuisance at the breakdown.

If they can keep that up and Toby hits his straps as a ball carrier then we could start hurting them through the middle.

And out wide. Seen little glimpses of Daly and Watson today but the chasing and hard stuff was good from them.

[morepork]

We paid the price for n idiotic challenge. No complaints here. But, by fuck, we will see you next week.

[Big D]

Players made hard work of it but in a big spot they got over the line. Some of the players will be better for winning and I expect both sides to take it up another level or 2 next week.

It's great both the last Lions tours have gone to a decider.

[Big D]

On the cards, SBW was a tube, Vunipola should have been replaced but I think yellow was the right call although we'll see if he is cited or not.

[jared_7]

[ALunpg]

On the cards, SBW was a tube, Vunipola should have been replaced but I think yellow was the right call although we'll see if he is cited or not.

Good summary
SBW lost the plot and made his own up..Mako read the same script and was lucky ...but let us hope we don't see more cards next week. That what was so positive about the first test very hard... some times borderline ..let's hope to keep it that way.

[16th man]

The thing with both the Vunipola calls is that both offences were pretty indistinguishable from things the ABs had done earlier in the game.

The "Shoulder charge" after the kick isn't particularly different to a late shot on Faz @ 5 minutes earlier that the ref had made a big thing about there not being anything wrong with. Both Mako and Warburton can be quite clearly heard pointing this out after the penalty is given.

If that clear out is a penalty, and I think it probably is, then Kaino and Retallick were both guilty of multiple unpunished offences in today's game.

AB fans complaining about offside calls

[Banquo]

Can't agree with that at all. Caused the AB's lots of issues, and they were doing so even before SBW went off. Shape in attack best it's been on tour by far. Just next week need a bit more decent ball.

Agreed, I was surprised at how cohesive they looked in attack, so will wind my neck in.

With diggers on this. Thought they offered little with ball in hand or with their much vaunted kicking game. Looked like they could have looped around each other all night and not caused too much upset.

The 'lots of issues' were caused by the pack, more importantly the back row.

well you are both wrong . We had not a lot of possession, and didn't kick that much relatively from 10 and 12, and I thought their handling was good and probing and got us over the gainline when we had it; the first try was the result of a loop and good handling down the right that stretched the defence, and then good hands the other way to put Faletau over. I thought they played together well, and looked competent in dreadful conditions.

That hurts, cos I really don't think faz is a good 12.

[Banquo]

AB fans complaining about offside calls

quite. Giving away pens on the 22 is not exactly unfamiliar.

[Puja]

Well I love the scenes, I love the fact the series is level.

But sorry, that was farcical.

Shoulder to the head for one team is a red, a yellow for the other.

11 penalties in their own half without even a warning, it's impossible to score in those conditions if the opposition can just infringe.

And then a penalty for taking a player in the air because he decided to jump for a pass?

Please. The winner here was Gatland, his pressure in the press worked and the Frenchman, as they do, surrendered like a little bitch.

Good luck for next week, hopefully it's an actual contest.

And one could point out that Vunipola got pinged for a scrum penalty where your tighthead dived for the floor, Read won a penalty for holding on without ever releasing the tackled player, Itoje got penalised for being offside when there was no ruck and no offside line and you even got to come back for the penalty on the 10m line despite having gone 30m forward and created a try-scoring opportunity, Farrell got a late shoulder charge where Taylor changed his line to run into him - play on from the ref - but when Vunipola runs into Barrett a minute later that's a penalty...

You could pick a dozen examples either side. The ref was rubbish all around, so probably better not to whinge.

Puja

[Puja]

Didn't really get to examine both of those incidents critically when watching it at the time. Looking at it now, any call for Vunipola's challenge to be a red is utterly risible - his initial contact with the arm is on the chest and he slides up into Barrett's face. Comparing that to SBW's active shoulder charge into the face of an upright player is just silly.

Puja

[16th man]

There appears to be some concern from AB fans on the number of lions pens that didn't lead to a yellow card.

They may want to have a think about this stat that came out of the RCs a year or so ago

For every 11 penalties South Africa gave away they got a yellow card.
For every 12 penalties Australia gave away they got a yellow card.
For every 43 penalties New Zealand gave away they got a yellow card.

[Puja]

We paid the price for n idiotic challenge. No complaints here. But, by fuck, we will see you next week.

Great attitude and I have absolutely no doubt that you'll pump us in the third match. Very good game and see you next week.

Puja

[jared_7]

Didn't really get to examine both of those incidents critically when watching it at the time. Looking at it now, any call for Vunipola's challenge to be a red is utterly risible - his initial contact with the arm is on the chest and he slides up into Barrett's face. Comparing that to SBW's active shoulder charge into the face of an upright player is just silly.

Puja

Lol, a couple of weeks ago (I can't remember what game it was) a player was yellow carded for a shoulder charge to the head area when the Lions player was ducking and slipping and his head was at knee level.

I said these rules are getting ridiculous and was told in no uncertain terms it should have been a red card because it was shoulder onto head and everything else doesn't matter.

Jared

[jared_7]

Anyway, on to another subject which isn't necessarily about this game (although one instance of an AB swan diving into a ruck right in front of Garces with none so much as a twitch caught my eye and I started watching more closely).

I've been out of touch with the game for a year or so, but watching throughout this tour I wonder has there been a drastic change in rules regarding players leaving their feet at ruck time?

ie; Its no longer a rule?

[Banquo]

cough what about the missed sitters cough

[jared_7]

cough what about the missed sitters cough

Terrible.

Read terrible as well, not very proactive.

Also for people who know, what are people's thoughts about Cruden? I mentioned it last week when he came on he looked a shambles and he did again today. Was always a fan and thought he would kick on but actually still seems like the player he was 6-7 years ago; great when you are spanking the opposition but flakey when the game is close.

Thought it was a big call benching Kaino, not sure I agreed with it if you are then just going to stick a back in the scrums anyway. Why not keep Kaino on and then for times you are worried about numbers in the backs, sit Cane out there??

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Anyway, on to another subject which isn't necessarily about this game (although one instance of an AB swan diving into a ruck right in front of Garces with none so much as a twitch caught my eye and I started watching more closely).

I've been out of touch with the game for a year or so, but watching throughout this tour I wonder has there been a drastic change in rules regarding players leaving their feet at ruck time?

ie; Its no longer a rule?

It seems like nigh on every ruck in all games at the top in both hemispheres are like it now. I reckon you could penalise every ruck for something if you wanted to ref to the law book but in the interest of entertainment a blind eye is turned it seems.

[jared_7]

Anyway, on to another subject which isn't necessarily about this game (although one instance of an AB swan diving into a ruck right in front of Garces with none so much as a twitch caught my eye and I started watching more closely).

I've been out of touch with the game for a year or so, but watching throughout this tour I wonder has there been a drastic change in rules regarding players leaving their feet at ruck time?

ie; Its no longer a rule?

It seems like nigh on every ruck in all games at the top in both hemispheres are like it now. I reckon you could penalise every ruck for something if you wanted to ref to the law book but in the interest of entertainment a blind eye is turned it seems.

Its like its no longer even in the rule book, Doorz. A couple of years ago it was THE thing to referee, I'm just gobsmacked at how flagrant it all is now. Presumably there has been an amendment or a directive that, like you say there are so many rules at ruck time, lets just not worry about this one anymore.

Probably has sped the game up as it was always a tough one guessing whether there was an attempt to bind, whether it was s slip etc...

[fivepointer]

The reffing left a lot to be desired. I like Garces but he made a number of very poor calls today. The SBW red wasnt one of them, though.
Lions rode their luck a bit. Better goal kicking and they could easily have lost. Their play in the 3rd quarter was just about as bad as they have produced all tour. Credit to them for pulling themselves together in the last quarter to take the win, which does set up next week very nicely.