RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:41 pm

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:32 pm 1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole (Sinckler)
4. Itoje
5. Chessum
6. Willis (Ludlam)
7. Earl (Willis)
8. Ludlam (Dombrandt)

9. JvP
10. Farrell
11. Freeman (Arundell)
12. Manu
13. Slade
14. Watson
15. Steward

16. Walker
17. Rodd
18. Sinckler (Cole)
19. Ribbans
20. Dombrandt (Earl)
21. Mitchell
22. Smith
23. Arundell (OHC)

Brackets = Borthers picks

We miss Ford. And also need Mercer back asap - unconvinced by Dombrandt as an international.

pretty much. Good to see you back!

Thanks - got pretty disillusioned in the final months of Eddies reign…

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:47 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:41 pm

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:32 pm 1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole (Sinckler)
4. Itoje
5. Chessum
6. Willis (Ludlam)
7. Earl (Willis)
8. Ludlam (Dombrandt)

9. JvP
10. Farrell
11. Freeman (Arundell)
12. Manu
13. Slade
14. Watson
15. Steward

16. Walker
17. Rodd
18. Sinckler (Cole)
19. Ribbans
20. Dombrandt (Earl)
21. Mitchell
22. Smith
23. Arundell (OHC)

Brackets = Borthers picks

We miss Ford. And also need Mercer back asap - unconvinced by Dombrandt as an international.

pretty much. Good to see you back!

Thanks - got pretty disillusioned in the final months of Eddies reign…

Months?

Beasties wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:41 pmI’ve never been Mako’s biggest fan but it does seem like his time has clearly passed now. VRR please, with Rodd and West (if getting exposure somewhere soon) pushing.

I'd add Obano in, if he can put 12 months together without breaking

Danno wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:42 pmDon't forget Ewels!

But I wanna!

Feels like we are starting to build something with Chessum / Willis / JvP / Lawrence / Arundell all looking like potentially top class international players but there is a ceiling on the team with Farrell at 10 (or 12) and he appears difficult to dislodge. Not promising to see him made captain and given 80 this week but hopefully Borthers favours Ford when he is fit.

Let's not forget how important winning that match was. Progress is progress.

Shiny wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:30 pm Good:
Willis
Lawrence
Mitchell
Ludlam
Genge

Bad:
Farrell
Dombrandt
The coach who is telling Farrell and Smith to kick through

Everyone else marks time but for the love of god leave Youngs at home again next time please (and Woodward to keep him company).

Itoje was his usual excellent self I thought.

I feel that Lawrence is being a bit overly lauded, he blotted his copy book with a few errors, scratching out jvp's try and then fumbling after a break. Definitely worth persisting with but I remain unconvinced that the 12 problems are over.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:11 pm

Shiny wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:30 pm Good:
Willis
Lawrence
Mitchell
Ludlam
Genge

Bad:
Farrell
Dombrandt
The coach who is telling Farrell and Smith to kick through

Everyone else marks time but for the love of god leave Youngs at home again next time please (and Woodward to keep him company).

Itoje was his usual excellent self I thought.

If anything, Itoje was better than his recent performances and a bit more energised. He and Chessum look like a good pairing. Ribbans will miss the boat by moving to France.

We missed an insane number of tackles and kicked an insane amount of ball away. Poor yardage made too.

Loads to do.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:17 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:11 pm

Shiny wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:30 pm Good:
Willis
Lawrence
Mitchell
Ludlam
Genge

Bad:
Farrell
Dombrandt
The coach who is telling Farrell and Smith to kick through

Everyone else marks time but for the love of god leave Youngs at home again next time please (and Woodward to keep him company).

Itoje was his usual excellent self I thought.

If anything, Itoje was better than his recent performances and a bit more energised. He and Chessum look like a good pairing. Ribbans will miss the boat by moving to France.

Did a different job this week.

Lost the 2nd half and intensity dropped off after the subs came on. Maybe the cushion of the lead had something to do with it, but similar last week.Early days and enough individual positives, but another 6N with 2 wins from 5 (maybe) would be on the disappointing side.

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:15 pm I feel that Lawrence is being a bit overly lauded, he blotted his copy book with a few errors, scratching out jvp's try and then fumbling after a break. Definitely worth persisting with but I remain unconvinced that the 12 problems are over.

Give the lad a chance. It's his first international for some time, and after all, he was playing outside Faz.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:19 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:15 pm I feel that Lawrence is being a bit overly lauded, he blotted his copy book with a few errors, scratching out jvp's try and then fumbling after a break. Definitely worth persisting with but I remain unconvinced that the 12 problems are over.

Give the lad a chance. It's his first international for some time, and after all, he was playing outside Faz.

Also the Italian 21 went down like he was playing football to milk that penalty. Minimum amount of contact and he was appealing before he'd finished going down. Was a soft penalty and made more frustrating by the blocks on Cole and Chessum being ignored for the second Italy try.

Lawrence added a nice direct threat to the midfield, made a lot of metres, tackles and an important turnover. Wasn't a perfect performance but he was a bright light on the day and surely earned a spot in that midfield going forward. If he keeps the all action displays but tightens everything up England will be on to a winner there.

Solid win when many had predicted you would struggle but if I was an England fan those kicking tactics would drive me mad.

It would be one thing if they were genuinely attacking kicks, but it is as if they have been told to kick it as long as they can find grass and put the Italian back three under pressure. Lots of kicks that were okay in and of themselves but alternatives to attacking play rather than part of it. The idea that they opened up space doesn't work given you never really seemed to try to go to that space.

Also - Chessum looks very good.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:31 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:19 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:15 pm I feel that Lawrence is being a bit overly lauded, he blotted his copy book with a few errors, scratching out jvp's try and then fumbling after a break. Definitely worth persisting with but I remain unconvinced that the 12 problems are over.

Give the lad a chance. It's his first international for some time, and after all, he was playing outside Faz.

Also the Italian 21 went down like he was playing football to milk that penalty. Minimum amount of contact and he was appealing before he'd finished going down. Was a soft penalty and made more frustrating by the blocks on Cole and Chessum being ignored for the second Italy try.

Lawrence added a nice direct threat to the midfield, made a lot of metres, tackles and an important turnover. Wasn't a perfect performance but he was a bright light on the day and surely earned a spot in that midfield going forward. If he keeps the all action displays but tightens everything up England will be on to a winner there.

Clear double standards applied to JVP's disallowed try (soccer dive by the Italian) and the blocking to enable Italy's #2 try.

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:15 pm I feel that Lawrence is being a bit overly lauded, he blotted his copy book with a few errors, scratching out jvp's try and then fumbling after a break. Definitely worth persisting with but I remain unconvinced that the 12 problems are over.

Crikey- the bar for being a decent 12 shoots up as soon as Faz moves out .

Lawrence did a lot of good stuff- more work to do, but given his lack of experience at 12, I’d settle for it. That kick he did tho…… kabadness..

Well that was incredibly boring. My expectations are pretty low for the Italy games in general but that was just so uninteresting.

There might be some useful things to take forward from that game, but it wasn’t very inspiring. It’s hard to know if that was more due to our insistence on not ever having the ball or the ref being happy for 40% of the game time to disappear waiting around for scrums etc.

After a certain point I sort of stopped caring. Faz kicks it away, backline never get the ball. Lawrence would occasionally get a run. Hated the use of the subs bench. Dombrandt with the worst performance anybody has ever put in, in any sport. The list goes on.

Also I liked the bit where the commentators were saying Italy are fun but maybe they should kick more if they want to get back in to it. They then went the whole way up the pitch just running and catching and passing. Probably the best period of the game.

They then fell apart and kept throwing the ball on the floor. Would have been very interesting to see how the final 20 minutes would have gone if they’d kept that up.

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:36 pm
Also - Chessum looks very good.

That is one issue ticked off the list. Who was going to partner Itoje was a big question for Borthwick to answer and so far Chessum looks like he's working well with Maro. Big 80 mins from the pair of them.

Ludlam and Willis were pretty good as a pair of flankers. I'd have liked to see Ludlam a bit more ball in hand but otherwise it worked. We can't keep replacing two of the backrow each game though, Dombrandt needs to start doing a full 80 as the locks are running themselves into the floor.

All those dinky kicks behind the defence when knocking hard on the tryline looks like an amateur rugby league team from the 1980s going robotically through the motions on the 5th tackle. Makes you wonder if Farrell is actually coaching the backline attack. To add weight to the amateur league side hypothesis, when all else fails, the chippy prick usually gets in a Fite. It is the most perplexingly unsophisticated pivot strategy in ze whole vorld.

morepork wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:23 pm All those dinky kicks behind the defence when knocking hard on the tryline looks like an amateur rugby league team from the 1980s going robotically through the motions on the 5th tackle. Makes you wonder if Farrell is actually coaching the backline attack. To add weight to the amateur league side hypothesis, when all else fails, the chippy prick usually gets in a Fite. It is the most perplexingly unsophisticated pivot strategy in ze whole vorld.

That's the analogy I'm looking for. Decent kicks on the last tackle if nothing is on and you are out of ideas. Might force a few repeat sets or pin them near their line.

morepork wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:23 pm All those dinky kicks behind the defence when knocking hard on the tryline looks like an amateur rugby league team from the 1980s going robotically through the motions on the 5th tackle. Makes you wonder if Farrell is actually coaching the backline attack. To add weight to the amateur league side hypothesis, when all else fails, the chippy prick usually gets in a Fite. It is the most perplexingly unsophisticated pivot strategy in ze whole vorld.

It's a dull but low risk strategy. You either score, get a lineout from a hurried clearance or get it kicked to you from the goal line. If you lose shape, grubber and reset.

How much risk does keeping the ball in hand when presented with an extra man overlap 10 meters from the line when running at full Forrest Gump entail?

Maybe dull and low reward is a better description of the strategy.

morepork wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:06 pm How much risk does keeping the ball in hand when presented with an extra man overlap 10 meters from the line when running at full Forrest Gump entail?

Maybe dull and low reward is a better description of the strategy.

It is unadventurous, disheartening and most of all a sack of shit to watch.

morepork wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:06 pm How much risk does keeping the ball in hand when presented with an extra man overlap 10 meters from the line when running at full Forrest Gump entail?

Maybe dull and low reward is a better description of the strategy.

Yep. You’d hope converting a four on three would be low enough risk for international players…